testing electrical

musselmark · Aug 7, 2015

I have a 200 amp hybrid mig from northern tool (mig, stick and tig)and it does not seem hot enough. My buddy has the identical machine and it works fine. This is a replacement unit under warrantee as the old one was the same. I am thinking the problem may lay in the input voltage/amperage. I had an electrician do some tests, voltage is perfect. I had him test amperage under wide open load, he said each leg in panel showed 12 amps while in mig mode and 19 amps while in stick mode. The machine is supposed to put out 140 amps on stick and 200 on mig so shouldn't the load on the panel in mig mode be the same or more than in stick? My buddy can set heat to wide pen and speed at 7 while I can only go 4 all other variables being the same. What other tests could I do?

Mysfyt · Aug 7, 2015

The first thing is bring it to your buddies shop and try it there. Then we'll know if it is your machine or your shop electrical.

stingray1 · Aug 7, 2015

Mysfyt said:
The first thing is bring it to your buddies shop and try it there. Then we'll know if it is your machine or your shop electrical.

I agree. Sounds to me like your shop elect. Is ok.

musselmark · Aug 7, 2015

Will do, but I thought it was weird to have 2 machines act the same way (original and warrantee replacement) and the fact that the warrantee people had never heard of these symptoms.

Big Barn · Aug 7, 2015

musselmark said:
Will do, but I thought it was weird to have 2 machines act the same way (original and warrantee replacement) and the fact that the warrantee people had never heard of these symptoms.

For those entering employment in the customer service, complaint, and warranty departments the first phrase they learn is "hmm, we've never had that problem before" and my personal favorite "let's try to figure out what YOU did wrong...." Terry

CNC Dan · Aug 7, 2015

musselmark said:
....I had him test amperage under wide open load, he said each leg in panel showed 12 amps while in mig mode and 19 amps while in stick mode. The machine is supposed to put out 140 amps on stick and 200 on mig so shouldn't the load on the panel in mig mode be the same or more than in stick?

It depends. What was the output voltage? Input POWER (watts) should equal output POWER(watts), with some loss as heat in the machine. For DC current(output) you can just multiply voltage times amperage . For AC loads that have a low power factor the current and voltage waveform are not lined up, so it may not be so easy as multiplying the two together.
Most inverter welders have a high power factor(good), and most transformer machines (without power factor correction capacitors) have a lower power factor.

musselmark · Aug 7, 2015

I took the welder to my buddys place and tried it on his plug. It acted the same as at my house. I then switched to his bottle of co2/argon mixed gas and it welded much hotter????? I thought 100%Co2 ( my bottle is 100% Co2) was supposed to be hotter. I doubled checked by running his machine on my 100% Co2 and it acted the same as mine was, poor penetration, colder weld. There is a very noticeable difference.

dragoneggs · Aug 7, 2015

musselmark said:
I took the welder to my buddys place and tried it on his plug. It acted the same as at my house. I then switched to his bottle of co2/argon mixed gas and it welded much hotter????? I thought 100%Co2 ( my bottle is 100% Co2) was supposed to be hotter. I doubled checked by running his machine on my 100% Co2 and it acted the same as mine was, poor penetration, colder weld. There is a very noticeable difference.

Sounds like problem solved?

musselmark · Aug 7, 2015

yes, but it is counter intuitive to everything I have read about different gases for MIG welding

Mysfyt · Aug 8, 2015

Glad you found your problem so quickly. I once tried 75/25 instead of straight Co2 and really didn't notice that much of a difference in the welds. More spatter with the Co2 from what I remember. The other thing I remember was the cost- $19 a tank for Co2 vs $45 for the mix. Keep in mind, this was probably 20 years ago. But if this is what works for you, go with it and don't look back.

musselmark · Aug 8, 2015

I have always used 100%CO2 with my 20+ year old Lincoln SP-170 MIG and it worked great. That machine is much heavier than my current 200 amp inverter based IGBT Mig. I have read online something about older machines were designed to run on CO2 and newer high end machines have an inductance control which will help when using CO2, maybe this is coming into play with my current machine, I don't know.

Mysfyt · Aug 8, 2015

You may be on to something. Does your new welder 'automatically' adjust speed and voltage?

dstig1 · Aug 9, 2015

Are you sure you actually have 100% CO2? It is not unheard of to get a bad bottle - wrong gas/mix... but it is hard to test for.

musselmark · Aug 9, 2015

My welder does not have automatic controls, it has normal speed and heat settings, the only difference is the heat knob controls voltage in MIG mode and amperage in stick/tig mode. The big difference is the weight, much lighter than the lincoln although more powerful, I assume this means a smaller transformer. As for the gas, yes it is 100% CO2, it is a 20 lb beverage tank and I get it filled at my local fire safety shop that fills fire extinguishers.

Mysfyt · Aug 9, 2015

musselmark said:
My welder does not have automatic controls, it has normal speed and heat settings, the only difference is the heat knob controls voltage in MIG mode and amperage in stick/tig mode. The big difference is the weight, much lighter than the lincoln although more powerful, I assume this means a smaller transformer. As for the gas, yes it is 100% CO2, it is a 20 lb beverage tank and I get it filled at my local fire safety shop that fills fire extinguishers.

Red flags are popping up here. There may be a difference in quality between fire extinguisher Co2 and welding Co2. I don't know. Anyone?

musselmark · Aug 9, 2015

This has to be 100% CO2, they fill tanks for beverage such as fountain pop, draught beer etc...as well

otlski · Aug 9, 2015

When you switched to your friend's tank did you use his pressure regular, gauges, and flow regulator or yours?

musselmark · Aug 9, 2015

No, all that stayed with their tanks. With my CO2 I tried many different flow settings with no improvement, and was definitely flowing, I could hear and smell it (CO2 feels more like a burn in your nose than a smell)