SevenCorners
Silver Member
I have heard reference to "dead head the pump" for some time without really understanding what this means. Can someone please enlighten me?
Terminology Question
- Thread starter SevenCorners
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Soundguy
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Blocked or severly restricted pump output. With a positive displacement pump.. if you block the output.. the oil still goes somewhere.. usually blows a seal out.. or cracks a casting.. rarely it may blow a fitting from a line.. and even more rare may make a line rupture... but the oil does go somewhere. ( or the pump self destructs )...
I've seen oil pumps ( pow streering ) that were coupler driven of the back of other devices.. like gennies.. and the pump deadhead, and have it shear the pump input shaft.. or destroy the lovejoy coupler.. or even destroy the input shaft / gearing the primary load was driven off of.
As it pertains to jinmas.. I've seen quick disconnects added in right after the hyd pump ( for a loader? ).. but before a relief ( super bad design idea.. whether it was practical or convienient or not....)... if that qd comes loose, the pump deadheads. I've heard some people use zip-ties as a 'safety' to prevent the slipped coupler issue.
Before greg hops on me with the 'you don't own a jinma issue': /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
When i say heard.. that means 'read'.. as in here.. in this forum.... When i say 'saw'.. I mean as in person, looking at an actual tractor at farmpro dealer, ( I have the brochure from the deal if you want proof I actually was there! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif ) where you could see the qd inline directly a few inches from the pump.. looked like a gas can dangling over a fire...
If you want non tractor related hyd reference.. you can research 'head' as it applies to fluid power.
Soundguy
I've seen oil pumps ( pow streering ) that were coupler driven of the back of other devices.. like gennies.. and the pump deadhead, and have it shear the pump input shaft.. or destroy the lovejoy coupler.. or even destroy the input shaft / gearing the primary load was driven off of.
As it pertains to jinmas.. I've seen quick disconnects added in right after the hyd pump ( for a loader? ).. but before a relief ( super bad design idea.. whether it was practical or convienient or not....)... if that qd comes loose, the pump deadheads. I've heard some people use zip-ties as a 'safety' to prevent the slipped coupler issue.
Before greg hops on me with the 'you don't own a jinma issue': /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
When i say heard.. that means 'read'.. as in here.. in this forum.... When i say 'saw'.. I mean as in person, looking at an actual tractor at farmpro dealer, ( I have the brochure from the deal if you want proof I actually was there! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif ) where you could see the qd inline directly a few inches from the pump.. looked like a gas can dangling over a fire...
If you want non tractor related hyd reference.. you can research 'head' as it applies to fluid power.
Soundguy
SPIKER
Elite Member
hi seven:
dead heading the pump means stopping the flow of liquid OUT of the pump (used here mostly describing the hydraulic pump)
other pumps can handel this OURS can't the pump we have is designed to put out a certain amount of fluid per revolution. say 1 CU inch of voulme per turn of the pump stop the output and the fluid has no where to go this results in damage, becasue fluid does not compress. the results are usually broken pump seals, pump shaft or sheared keyway if you are lucky. most of the time the seals blow out of the pump as the fluid finds SOMEPLACE to go!.. There is a HYDRAULIC QUESTION posted I belive in the general forum above which I went into greater depth. but you should get the gist of it.
Mark M /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
dead heading the pump means stopping the flow of liquid OUT of the pump (used here mostly describing the hydraulic pump)
other pumps can handel this OURS can't the pump we have is designed to put out a certain amount of fluid per revolution. say 1 CU inch of voulme per turn of the pump stop the output and the fluid has no where to go this results in damage, becasue fluid does not compress. the results are usually broken pump seals, pump shaft or sheared keyway if you are lucky. most of the time the seals blow out of the pump as the fluid finds SOMEPLACE to go!.. There is a HYDRAULIC QUESTION posted I belive in the general forum above which I went into greater depth. but you should get the gist of it.
Mark M /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
OP
SevenCorners
Silver Member
Thanks guys, I zipped tied my QD but never really understood why, it was just a recommendation I picked up here. Now it makes sense.
JohnS
Platinum Member
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I've heard some people use zip-ties as a 'safety' to prevent the slipped coupler issue.
)</font>
Yep, I use them myself. While it probably provides only limited safety, ie in case vibration or something causes the coupler to pop off, it does provide the focus that you need to pay attention to the couplers. It is very easy to think you have the couplers seated correctly, but they are not. You need to pull vigorously on the ends, to make sure. The ties also prevents someone who is not familiar with the tractor, from inadvertly disconnecting them.
It is one of the design issues that the owner has to be aware of, and prepared to handle. Recommend having a spare pump on hand, or at least the rebuild kit. While some dealers will plumb the fel, past the diverter valve, the QD might still be there.
Tie Wrap Info
)</font>
Yep, I use them myself. While it probably provides only limited safety, ie in case vibration or something causes the coupler to pop off, it does provide the focus that you need to pay attention to the couplers. It is very easy to think you have the couplers seated correctly, but they are not. You need to pull vigorously on the ends, to make sure. The ties also prevents someone who is not familiar with the tractor, from inadvertly disconnecting them.
It is one of the design issues that the owner has to be aware of, and prepared to handle. Recommend having a spare pump on hand, or at least the rebuild kit. While some dealers will plumb the fel, past the diverter valve, the QD might still be there.
Tie Wrap Info
OP
SevenCorners
Silver Member
So what should one do when faced with a scenario from John's link if your tractor does not have a decompression handle?
Soundguy
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I had always thought if I had bouhgt a unit like that that I would re-plumb it.. so that the qd was after the output. Whether this involved a new hose.. or a new hose and and extra relief valve.. even if the extra relief simply dumped the oil straight out on the ground in the case of a deadhead scenerio.. seems like cheap insurance for a known issue.
Next to that.. securing it like you folks do/mention, with the zip ties sounds like the next best bet.
Soundguy
Next to that.. securing it like you folks do/mention, with the zip ties sounds like the next best bet.
Soundguy
JohnS
Platinum Member
Out of a number of people that I have heard about, having blown pumps, he was the only one to have that dieseling issue. If you don't have a decompression lever, not sure what you do. In this case, removing the fuel source, could be a bit un-nerving, ie draining the crankcase while engine running /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
Boltonpower
Silver Member
Hi there,,
When I order single pump tractors like the 204 and 284 I
have the factory plumb the loader supply out of the steering
diverter valve waste port. If you pop the QD the steering gets
a little strange but nothing is damaged. For the life of me I don't
know why the factory default is direct from the pump.
Never been able to figure that out.
Regards
Graham
Bolton Power
When I order single pump tractors like the 204 and 284 I
have the factory plumb the loader supply out of the steering
diverter valve waste port. If you pop the QD the steering gets
a little strange but nothing is damaged. For the life of me I don't
know why the factory default is direct from the pump.
Never been able to figure that out.
Regards
Graham
Bolton Power
Soundguy is the kind of man that we need to own a Jinma. Seems he has lots of tractor experience and could help us with some of the little problems we run into. How bout it Soundguy? I'd like to see you pick up a 35hp model /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
Soundguy
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</font><font color="blue" class="small">( that was me that said you didn't own a jinma,,greg probably just thought it,,,thingy )</font>
You may be right.. though I think greg has taken me to task for it as well /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif ( tag team? ) /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
Soundguy
You may be right.. though I think greg has taken me to task for it as well /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif ( tag team? ) /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
Soundguy
Soundguy
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I'm actually tetering on the edge of picking up one of those economy farm pro jobs. Can't beat the price.. and i could use a small NEW estate tractor. My oldies are fun.. but I hat to relie on them full time. I don't need a big one.. as I have that NH 7610s that's only a couple years old.. it handles the 'big stuff' But something to tote a 4' hog.. and back blade would be awefull nice... Let me get in and out of trees.. and the wife may drive it... she doesn't like my old gas jobs... they go too fast and don't have power steering.. and even the small fords are still 'large' the small cub is just right.. but at 11-14hp it don't do much but look pretty and cut a couple ac of gras a month..
That is why i hang out here.. just accumulating info on it before I get one... I don't think it is an 'if' question.. but a 'when'.
Soundguy
That is why i hang out here.. just accumulating info on it before I get one... I don't think it is an 'if' question.. but a 'when'.
Soundguy
Sound person,,,if you are going to buy one,,think nortrac,,or maybe some where else,,I've heard of a lot of troubles with those super bargain ones,,,and don't care to say as much,,,don't mean they are all that way,,but who puts them together and orders them,with this or that,,means a lot in this chinese tractor experiment,,I've come to think... thingy
jeff_jeff
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As I've mentioned before, I bought the super-cheap FarmPro 2420 at the Homier traveling show for $3500 out the door - I've had it about a year, and its perfect for what I need, including a 4' hog.
Jeff
Jeff
Well there you go,,its a jinma,,same as a nortrac,,,I know,,it just seems like there is more trouble talked about on these boards about farm pros than the rest put together,,and silly little things as well,,do they even give a owners and parts manual out with them? Seems many don't have one,,,heard a few horror stories on them is all,,,but maybe they just sell 10 times as many as the rest,,to go along with all the complaints? thingy
AndyM
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<font color="blue"> I'm actually tetering on the edge of picking up one of those economy farm pro jobs. Can't beat the price.. </font>
I need a fourth tractor like I need another hole in my sock, but I have to check them out in person every time Homier has a sale. Even though I try to support American companies, something about these tractors draws me toward them.
The low price was what drew me towards them when I was looking for a tractor. But also, as you have mentioned before, the 20 hp models are so darn cute too. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Since Homier has come upon the scene, Northern Tool has been offering great specials on their models, such as free shipping. Their prices are almost comparable to Homier's price now, and it might be worth paying a few hundred dollars extra to get the better support.
I need a fourth tractor like I need another hole in my sock, but I have to check them out in person every time Homier has a sale. Even though I try to support American companies, something about these tractors draws me toward them.
The low price was what drew me towards them when I was looking for a tractor. But also, as you have mentioned before, the 20 hp models are so darn cute too. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Since Homier has come upon the scene, Northern Tool has been offering great specials on their models, such as free shipping. Their prices are almost comparable to Homier's price now, and it might be worth paying a few hundred dollars extra to get the better support.
bluechip
Veteran Member
Richard,
Ill grant you that when Farm Pro first entered the market they had some assembly issues, however that is no longer the case. Homier is certainly the largerst importer and distributor of Jinma tractors in the USA so if there is a high number of Farm Pro owners posting to these boards with problems, it could be just that most Jinmas sold in the US these days are Farm Pro.
ON the other hand, my personal observation is that most of the problems posted lately are not Farm Pro as you indicate(or Nortrac) but rather "gerneric" Jinmas likely imported by a few independent dealers who have entered the market to try to make a fast buck on the Chinese tractor "boom".
With Homiers current assembly process, along with improvements that they where able to convince the factory in China to make, current Farm Pros are much improved over those of a year ago.
Support of course will vary from dealer to dealer regardless of the name on your tractor.
Ill grant you that when Farm Pro first entered the market they had some assembly issues, however that is no longer the case. Homier is certainly the largerst importer and distributor of Jinma tractors in the USA so if there is a high number of Farm Pro owners posting to these boards with problems, it could be just that most Jinmas sold in the US these days are Farm Pro.
ON the other hand, my personal observation is that most of the problems posted lately are not Farm Pro as you indicate(or Nortrac) but rather "gerneric" Jinmas likely imported by a few independent dealers who have entered the market to try to make a fast buck on the Chinese tractor "boom".
With Homiers current assembly process, along with improvements that they where able to convince the factory in China to make, current Farm Pros are much improved over those of a year ago.
Support of course will vary from dealer to dealer regardless of the name on your tractor.
Soundguy
Old Timer
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</font><font color="blue" class="small">( prices are almost comparable to Homier's price now, )</font>
They are, but for the 4wd, slightly upgraded model.
Northern doesn't sell the 2wd model, as far as i know.
Still for a small 'super-lawnmower' sized tractor.. that 20hp 2wd one would be neat.. especially since it costs about the same as an expensive rider from HD/TSC/Sears.
Soundguy
They are, but for the 4wd, slightly upgraded model.
Northern doesn't sell the 2wd model, as far as i know.
Still for a small 'super-lawnmower' sized tractor.. that 20hp 2wd one would be neat.. especially since it costs about the same as an expensive rider from HD/TSC/Sears.
Soundguy
SPIKER
Elite Member
I agree with others, those 20 hp 2 whl drive MOWERS are pretty good for that and you get live cat1 pto on top of the MOWER options...
like others said farm pro has imported A LOT of tractors in the last year and sold them to people who would have NORMALLY bought a garden tractor/rider and do not know MUCH about a real tractor vs a riding mower. lots of mistakes happen that way and lots of things get broken when they do. also lots of errors in early on assembly caused some confusion / problems but the team of people putting them together now are much better at it and have LEARNT (like other dealers) that there are a few items you have to pay attension to when assembeling them.
anyhow just wanted to put in my 2 cents worth.
MarkM /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
like others said farm pro has imported A LOT of tractors in the last year and sold them to people who would have NORMALLY bought a garden tractor/rider and do not know MUCH about a real tractor vs a riding mower. lots of mistakes happen that way and lots of things get broken when they do. also lots of errors in early on assembly caused some confusion / problems but the team of people putting them together now are much better at it and have LEARNT (like other dealers) that there are a few items you have to pay attension to when assembeling them.
anyhow just wanted to put in my 2 cents worth.
MarkM /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
