Tell us something we don’t know.

   / Tell us something we don’t know. #8,481  
WinterDeere said:
For sure, there are, I wasn't trying to imply that every part of every one of these states is less ideal. Of course there is local variability. But speaking in broader generalities, many of the planes states which were first populated for farming in the 1930's, are inferior growing locations compared to the places those people left behind back east. The migration happened for reasons tied to land cost and government assistance, and not because it was better land or climate.
Click to expand...
That's an interesting view, but it is not one that I think is reflected in most sources.

First off, it is the Plains states, as in the Great Plains, where the prairie grasses grew taller than a person on horseback in many places. The soil under those grasses built up over tens of thousands of years from glacial dust (loess) and grass fires, making the soil rather rich on a global and US scale.
lg9Kbmx.png
When that high quality soil overlaps with rainfall, it is some of the most productive land on the planet.

Water is a limitation in some areas for some crops, as is growing season, and soil minerals. Farmers are astute business folks (and custodians of their lands) for the most part, and do try to optimize returns (harvest yield and sales prices) against input costs. That's why sunflowers get grown in North Dakota, and not in say southern Missouri.

I don't think that your 1930s comment aligns with known settlement patterns. What did change in the 1930s was the economic and social impacts of the Great Depression that cost many small farmers their farms and started the growth in farm size, abetted by an increasing mechanization of agriculture.
1714051556344.png

(From USDA ERS - Farming and Farm Income)

More here;

All the best,

Peter
 
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   / Tell us something we don’t know. #8,482  
Slowpoke Slim said:
That reminds me of the time I worked with other contractors on one of John McCain's houses in Scottsdale, AZ. That guy was a complete (insert your favorite NEGATIVE adjective here). Just a complete horse's backside. Hated us all for being there, and couldn't get us to leave fast enough. We had to park around back, MUST use the service entrance, not allowed anywhere in the main house without an escort/reason (I needed to multiple times for tech/data/sound + entertainment system work in multiple parts of the house) and it was just a high drama shizzle show each and every time I had to work in any room in the house. No matter how many times I explained why I needed in "that room" (whichever room it was) and what I was going to do in there, it was a ranting tirade each time. And he was just pissed the whole time we were there, swearing at us and yelling, etc.

Can't tell you how close I came to telling him to go 'F' himself to his face. Any other "customer" and we'd have packed up and left. But because he was this big shot senator (hadn't run against Obummer yet), we had to "take it". It was so bad, my boss had to show up to keep us on site, we were all going to just pack up and go, and to h*ll with his house and if anything worked or not.

I think the company "agreed" (lol) to not do any future work there unless the senator was away in DC or traveling.

I wanted so badly to tell him that "Goldwater was right about you." (Senior AZ Senator Goldwater greatly disliked the man - and it was mutual).

Lol.
Click to expand...

Ugh. That doesn't align with the Golden Rule for sure. I am sure it wasn't pleasant at the time, and for me, it certainly brings back memories of some folks that I regret working for.

I tend to watch how people treat others, especially those not with power, and unfortunately for me, I tend to judge them on that behavior.

From a distance, it does seem like a funny story; someone wants work done, but can't make himself tolerate the folks who are there to help.

All the best,

Peter
 
   / Tell us something we don’t know.
  • Thread Starter
#8,483  
I’m not sure I can agree with the fact either that people left behind better farm ground out east. Some of the best farm ground in the world is in the area I live in Western Illinois.

Im a retired land surveyor and have done research on what the original government surveyors did in this area and other areas in the early 1800’s. Part of what they did when laying out the sections of ground was to note the ground and topography. Examples would be prairie, swamp, woods, streams, rivers etc. one thing I learned was people weren’t just worried about how good the soil was but was there trees nearby for construction and heat. So what was considered less than desirable land in 1820 might be considered some of the best today.
 
   / Tell us something we don’t know. #8,484  
ponytug said:
That's an interesting view, but it not one that I think is reflected in most sources.

First off, it is the Plains states, as in the Great Plains, where the prairie grasses grew taller than a person on horseback in many places. The soil under those grasses built up over tens of thousands of years from glacial dust (loess) and grass fires, making the soil rather rich on a global and US scale.
lg9Kbmx.png
When that high quality soil overlaps with rainfall, it is some of the most productive land on the planet.

Water is a limitation in some areas for some crops, as is growing season, and soil minerals. Farmers are astute business folks (and custodians of their lands) for the most part, and do try to optimize returns (harvest yield and sales prices) against input costs. That's why sunflowers get grown in North Dakota, and not in say southern Missouri.

I don't think that your 1930s comment aligns with known settlement patterns. What did change in the 1930s was the economic and social impacts of the Great Depression that cost many small farmers their farms and started the growth in farm size, abetted by an increasing mechanization of agriculture.
View attachment 864267
(From USDA ERS - Farming and Farm Income)

More here;

All the best,

Peter
Click to expand...
Interesting that disagrees almost entirely with what we know from history class, re: the dust bowl, bogus 1930’s “rain follows the plow” propaganda, government guaranteed grain rates, and the collapse thereof after WW2, etc.

For those who prefer to listen rather than read, American Scandal podcast just republished a good episode on this:

podcasts.apple.com

‎American Scandal on Apple Podcasts

‎History · 2024
podcasts.apple.com

One interesting excerpt:

“But with drought still gripping the region, and millions of acres of dry topsoil exposed to the winds, the storms only grow worse throughout the early 1930s. 1933, there are severe dust storms on 70 separate days.
They're strong enough to blow out windows in people's homes and short the electricity in their cars. And beginning in March of 1935, dust storms pummel the region for 30 consecutive days. All across the plains, these storms become more than just a nuisance.
The region increasingly begins to resemble an arid desert. Soil piles up beside people's houses, creating dunes up to four feet tall. Every day, men and women have to shovel dirt off their cars, the same way people in winter might shovel away snow.
But on bad days, people don't risk going outside at all. The air is so polluted with dirt, they're afraid they'll get lost in the haze or choke to death. Still staying inside isn't much better.”
 
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   / Tell us something we don’t know.
  • Thread Starter
#8,485  
It’s hard to argue with statistics. Illinois leads in soybean production, Iowa in corn, North Dakota in wheat with Kansas close behind. I guess I’m confused why you would think otherwise but let’s move on.
 
   / Tell us something we don’t know. #8,486  
WinterDeere said:
Interesting that disagrees almost entirely with what we know from history class, re: the dust bowl, bogus 1930’s “rain follows the plow” propaganda, government guaranteed grain rates, and the collapse thereof after WW2, etc.

For those who prefer to listen rather than read, American Scandal podcast just republished a good episode on this:

podcasts.apple.com

‎American Scandal on Apple Podcasts

‎History · 2024
podcasts.apple.com

One interesting excerpt:

“But with drought still gripping the region, and millions of acres of dry topsoil exposed to the winds, the storms only grow worse throughout the early 1930s. 1933, there are severe dust storms on 70 separate days.
They're strong enough to blow out windows in people's homes and short the electricity in their cars. And beginning in March of 1935, dust storms pummel the region for 30 consecutive days. All across the plains, these storms become more than just a nuisance.
The region increasingly begins to resemble an arid desert. Soil piles up beside people's houses, creating dunes up to four feet tall. Every day, men and women have to shovel dirt off their cars, the same way people in winter might shovel away snow.
But on bad days, people don't risk going outside at all. The air is so polluted with dirt, they're afraid they'll get lost in the haze or choke to death. Still staying inside isn't much better.”
Click to expand...
For those of you who have an interest in the Dust Bowl, there is a great book out there;

The Worst Hard Time: The Untold Story of Those Who Survived the Great American Dust Bowl​


I highly recommend the book.

All the best,

Peter
 
   / Tell us something we don’t know. #8,487  
Totally different topic...

Some of you may not know that one of the best (and least expensive) sources of nitrogen for lawn & garden usage is DEF. Yep...diesel exhaust fluid. If you look at the label its about 46% urea (nitrogen) and the rest is water. TSC has it for $9 for a 2½ gal container, which is sufficient to spray on 2+ acres.

I tried it a couple of weeks ago, and I can already tell how well it's greening the lawn up and making it grow. Going to do another application maybe tomorrow. Just make sure you water it in right after the app, or apply just before a rain event.

Just FYI.
 
   / Tell us something we don’t know. #8,488  
duffer said:
Totally different topic...

Some of you may not know that one of the best (and least expensive) sources of nitrogen for lawn & garden usage is DEF. Yep...diesel exhaust fluid. If you look at the label its about 46% urea (nitrogen) and the rest is water. TSC has it for $9 for a 2½ gal container, which is sufficient to spray on 2+ acres.

I tried it a couple of weeks ago, and I can already tell how well it's greening the lawn up and making it grow. Going to do another application maybe tomorrow. Just make sure you water it in right after the app, or apply just before a rain event.

Just FYI.
Click to expand...
Interesting...for a lawn I would be tempted do it but not for garden or a hay fields, there are additive and chemical in this stuff...although they are minimum traces of them for me it's best to spend the extra $$ and have a clear conscience.
 
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   / Tell us something we don’t know. #8,489  
John Froelich (1849-1933) of Iowa invented the gas-powered tractor in 1892, instantly igniting a global revolution in agriculture. (Public Domain)
 
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