tc40d with no power

[sonnyc]

Hi all you guru's out there, :thumbsup:
I need your help. I have a new holland tc40d that just doesn't have any power. No power to pull it self up a hill or load the bucket with rock. It will rev up to full throttle, altho I think just slightly slow getting there. I have replaced the fuel and air filter and fuel supply pump. (don't know if this is related, other words it seemed fine when I did this but) A while ago just for good measure I replaced the hydrolic fluid in it and filter. I'm not sure if this was a slow decline in power or not, I really don't use it much for anything heavy, but seemed pretty fast to me. Fast in that it seemed with in 2-3 weeks went from being able to box blade the drive way to now won't barely make it up the drive way in low gear unless I rev it up first and by the top it is almost dieing. Not a steep drive either, rather gradual. Any help would be appreciated.
I replaced the supply pump becouse I removed the fuel line to it and it gushed out, but when I removed it at the injection pump it came out but not gushing, that is as it was turned it over.
I am a little leary to throw an injection pump on it altho that is what I am thinking it is. It's big money. :drool:

 

[RobertN]

Is it in hi or low range? Is the turtle/rabbit function working properly?

I was out on mine yesterday, and tried to run up the steeper part of our drive. It is steep enough it does not like rabbit mode.

Maybe yours is not switching in and out of that mode?

 

[sonnyc]

It used to go up the drive fine in high, but now in low it barely will do it. The rabbit function I have messed with and no difference. Besides this shouldn't have any impact on the bucket, which boggs the engine down to the point of dieing if I try to load dirt, rock or anything. That is why I think it is fuel related.
But who knows

 

[jinman]

So, if I understand your problem, the FEL and probably the PTO can kill the engine easily. The engine also dies when in Range I/turtle and you try to climb a hill. Essentially the engine doesn't have enough power to overcome the hydraulic pressure relief nor the HST bypass. To me the problem has to be one of several things:

1. Fuel quality - bad diesel or contaminated (gasoline in diesel possible?)
2. Fuel delivery to injector pump - Some owners have experienced trash in the fuel tanks that won't clog the filter but will plug the hose/tubing
3. Injector pump not operating properly, plugged injector lines, or out of time
4. Centrifugal governor not working
5. Fuel cutoff solenoid on the injector pump is not fully opening the injector inlet (solenoid plunger is binding/sticking)

That's a lot of things to check and you've pretty much shown that fuel is getting to the injector pump, but continuous flow could be slowed by trash. This problem in the past has almost always been on the fuel tank/fuel pump/fuel filter side, but you seem to have tested this pretty thoroughly. I guess you might carfully loosen the fitting on the injectors to see if you are getting flow, but you know there is some flow because the engine is operating, just not at peak efficiency. How does the exhaust look?

Before you do something radical like order a new injector pump, I think I'd let a diesel shop look at it to see what they think. In the meantime, I'd check all those things listed above to see if one of them isn't your problem.

 

[sonnyc]

Hey Jim,
Thanks for the reply, I have by checked flow from the tank and it is pretty good. The filter and bowl always stay full, and when I bypass the suply pump and hook the filter directly to the injection pump it rums the same. I get really good flow from the filter to the suply pump so I don't think it is any trash in line or the tank, but I could be wrong. As for the rest you mentioned, I am not sure how to check those things.
Do you have any suggestions on that?

oh and the exhaust blows black smoke when you rev it up as it revs up. then it clears out. I don't know if this helps at all.

Thanks for all the help

 

[Eagleview]

I go along with Jims thought of fuel restriction . Does it have a Banjo bolt on the fuel supply line like these ? A lot of the time the restriction is in the gauze filter within the Banjo bolt . The cylindrical object at the bottom in the second photo is the gauze filter and as you can imagine , block up easily .

 

[klm]

Air Filter?

 

[KubotainNH]

Can you make sure the intake has unrestricted flow? I've read a post about someone having critter nests in their intake. I know you replaced the filter but is the rest clear?

 

[jinman]

Sonny, I can't tell you how to check the injector pump timing because I'm not an expert on that at all. However, the governor flyweights and cone assy is on the front of the engine and driven by the end of the camshaft. If you put the loader down and/or set the parking brake, rev the engine, and press on the forward or reverse HST pedal, you should be able to see the a lever from the governor assy moving the input to the injector pump. This will take two people if you don't have your seat switch bypassed. Of course, you will have to raise the hood and a flashlight would be helpful.

My Repair Manual also says that if connections are not tight, air can be drawn into the injector pump and cause loss of power. I'd say to go over everything to make sure all fittings are tight.

Other than those two things and what you know about fuel feed, I really am at a loss for what else to have you check. You engine just sounds normal except for not having enough power.

EDIT: Where the governor shaft attaches to the injector pump, there is a bracket like the one in the illustration below. The blue circle is a shaft with a slot in the end. The slot should line up with the slot in the clamp bracket for proper governor phasing. You might check to see if yours has slipped or come loose.

 

[sonnyc]

Hey guys thank you all for the replys,
As for the gauze filters, I will check them. The air filter is brand new, the last one was slam full of dirt. I guess I need to change them more often then once a year. And I will check the governor. What about the fuel cut off solenoid not fully opening the injector inlet? I'm not sure I understand what or how that is? or how to check it.

So I am assuming that once I check all the suggestions, I should go ahead with the injection pump? Would it or could it not produce the pressure needed or the volume needed to cause the problem I am having?

Thank you all again for all the help.
Sonny

 

[jinman]

What about the fuel cut off solenoid not fully opening the injector inlet? I'm not sure I understand what or how that is? or how to check it.

Of all the possible problems, that is probably the least likely, but the easiest to check. The only reason I mentioned it a all is that your problems seem so strange that it might be something remote. I've attached a picture of the solenoid. It's that shiny round cylinder right behind the injector pump. It has one spade connector to remove and then you can unscrew it. The knurled surface means only hand tight, but you might have to grip it with pliers to get it started. Be very careful because you don't want to squeeze it too hard. Once you have it out, just hook up the wire and turn on the key with the range lever in neutral and the parking brake set, the plunger should fully retract. Note: the body has to be in contact with ground to operate.

Also in this picture down near the lower right corner, you can see the bracket I illustrated in my last post with the governor shaft phased properly.

I'm attaching a photo of the solenoid completely removed too.

 

[sonnyc]

Ok, I am sorry for the late response, I have been away for a few days.
I have checked the solenoid, checked fuel pressure to the injection pump to see if loosing pressure, and have take'n the airfilter and hoses off and everything seems good. Except still no power and slow reving.
Does anyone know how the injection pump is timed? does it run directly off the camshaft as it looks like it does on the parts breakdown in mesicks? Also I could not find the Governor assembly on the parts breakdown. How does it work? Internally that is. I know they generally work centrificully but I don't see any info on this part.

Thanks again all of you. you truly are a wealth of knowledge.
s.c.

 

[Eagleview]

So does that mean you have not checked the Banjo bolt/s for a blocked gauze filter ?

 

[J_J]

You said you replaced the fluid. Did you replace it with the same fluid type?

 

[sonnyc]

Sorry, yes I checked the banjo bolts, but I did not find any gauze filter on any of them. Do you know which ones should have them?
And as far as the fluid goes, yes it was replaced with all the same fluid.

 

[sonnyc]

I'm kind of thinking it is either timing of the injection pump or governor. It starts right up, which I haven't ever seen when the injection pump is weak, and or when It lacks fuel. I checked the fuel pressure at the injection pump with it running and it was just about 4psi at idle and reved up. So it's staying consistent not dropping out. :/

 

[J_J]

I had a similar problem years ago. The engine would not rev up and had little power. Did all the things you guys had done. Then one day, I thought why not look through the air tube running from the front to the large air filter. There was a bend in the tube, so I could not see, so I used a wire and ran it in and snagged something. It was a rats nest almost totally clogging the tube.. Everything went back to normal.

Your injection pump pressure does not seem correct.

 

[sonnyc]

I have checked the air intake system. I even disconnected the airfilter assembly from the intake manifold. All good. And it ran the same. It will rev up just not like I think it should. It seems a bit sluggish getting to top rpm. Also that psi Is pre injection pump. Just what the supply pump pumps. Don't know what it should be tho.

 

[jinman]

Sonnyc, here are the Repair Manual pages about the governor. I doubt this is your problem, but I will leave it to you to decide for sure.

 

[banjodunn]

G'day it is extremely unlikely that the inj pump timing would have altered unless you have had the pump out or broken teeth/drive pin on the pump diesels unlike gas do not need timing altered every service i have seen pumps on engines that have done in excess of 10,000 hrs and never even had the nuts loosened on the pump.


Jon