TC33 Starter Problem

[ruffdog]

his testing above shows there is no power loss when the starter is mounted in the tractor, if anything its pulling more amps, we also showed there was no draw on the starting wires, so there does not appear to be a wiring issue, it seems like alignment of some sort

He said that both old and new starters acted slow while mounted. I would then just snug the bolts and see if it helps. I'm just thinking that the OP is going to have a major ah-ha moment when he spots the problem.

 

[LittleBill21]

He said that both old and new starters acted slow while mounted. I would then just snug the bolts and see if it helps. I'm just thinking that the OP is going to have a major ah-ha moment when he spots the problem.

his amperage readings tell me a different story, and again the engine is not turning, just the starter. I hope he figures it out, its an interesting one for sure.

 

[lpakiz]

Let me clarify the correct procedure for a voltage drop test using a DIGITAL volt meter. A voltage drop test seeks to show that the LOADED circuit is in fact, delivering the necessary amperage (power) at the necessary voltage.
Since a digital voltmeter draws virtually NO power from the circuit, it is hooked up PARALLEL to the wire or circuit being tested. When hooked parallel to an unpowered wire, the meter should read ZERO.
Now power up the circuit. The voltmeter should read less than one full volt--a half of a volt is pretty good and 2 tenths of a volt is about as good as you can expect.
In this case, hook the voltmeter to the actual post of the battery, not the battery cable clamp or even the pinch bolt holding the clamp onto the post. NO, hook DIRECTly on the lead battery post. (This will test the whole circuit.). The other lead goes to the big OUTPUT post of the solenoid, or even the copper lug that goes into the starter motor.

Now activate the solenoid and watch the meter for the aforementioned readings. The reading you see is the amount of volts NOT getting thru the cable and associated circuitry. If it shoots right up to 10-12 volts, you are getting virtually NOTHING at the starter. Remember, we are looking for less than a one volt reading.
After this test, do the same with the ground circuit, since that circuit must carry exactly as much current as the positive circuit. Hook your meter to the negative battery post as described above, and the other lead to the body of the starter or the head of one of the bolts that holds the starter together. Activate the starter and watch the meter. Remember, we are looking for no more than ONE volt on the meter, and a half or less is better yet.
This test is measuring the difference between a loaded, and possibly faulty, circuit and a "perfect" circuit ( the meter) and showing you the difference in tenths of a volt.

 

[KingBubba]

I know it is new, but what is the possibility that you received the wrong starter. Is it possibly a starter that the bendix does not extend up the shaft far enough to engage the flywheel. I have never heard of anyone that has had so much trouble with such a simple procedure as swapping a starter. I wish I could help you.

 

[LittleBill21]

I know it is new, but what is the possibility that you received the wrong starter. Is it possibly a starter that the bendix does not extend up the shaft far enough to engage the flywheel. I have never heard of anyone that has had so much trouble with such a simple procedure as swapping a starter. I wish I could help you.

he says both of them are doing the identical thing. the odd's both are broken are extremely rare.

 

[Noytheyah]

MYSTERY SOLVED!

Thank you everyone for giving me your time and efforts, y’all are truly awesome.

I went out and took another look at where I colored the ring gear and starter with the sharpie. Again I could not see any wear on either side, I even looked at the tape (just blue painters tape) and although there was a dark mark (which I thought was grease from putting the starter in) there were no rips, tears, etc. So I grabbed a can of spray paint and coated the starter and ring gear, hooked it up and low and behold they were touching. From where they were touching it appeared the starter was sitting too low. So I put it back in this time pulling as hard as I could away from the engine to tighten. Same result just spinning. Upon further inspection I noticed the clutch housing was misaligned maybe 1/32. Desperate at this point I loosened everything up and drove an alignment punch in the starter mount hole then tightened it all up again. I mounted the starter pulling it away from the engine and it finally started.

Again thanks so much for the input, I really learned a lot.

 

[MTGreen]

MYSTERY SOLVED!

Thank you everyone for giving me your time and efforts, y’all are truly awesome.

I went out and took another look at where I colored the ring gear and starter with the sharpie. Again I could not see any wear on either side, I even looked at the tape (just blue painters tape) and although there was a dark mark (which I thought was grease from putting the starter in) there were no rips, tears, etc. So I grabbed a can of spray paint and coated the starter and ring gear, hooked it up and low and behold they were touching. From where they were touching it appeared the starter was sitting too low. So I put it back in this time pulling as hard as I could away from the engine to tighten. Same result just spinning. Upon further inspection I noticed the clutch housing was misaligned maybe 1/32. Desperate at this point I loosened everything up and drove an alignment punch in the starter mount hole then tightened it all up again. I mounted the starter pulling it away from the engine and it finally started.

Again thanks so much for the input, I really learned a lot.

Wow, glad you got it sorted. Seems it should have been designed with dowel pins for clutch housing alignment like most every other tractor on the planet. I blame Fiat...

 

[lman]

Wow, glad you got it sorted. Seems it should have been designed with dowel pins for clutch housing alignment like most every other tractor on the planet. I blame Fiat...

I believe the tractor/engine is made by Shibaura.

 

[LittleBill21]

NICE, Glad my thought process was correct. glad the spray trick worked as well

 

[Russ5160]

Well it seems like there's only a couple things it can be at this point. Since the starter is new and your positive battery cable is new and you ruled out the possibility that your battery is putting out good voltage but no amperage: either the ground circuit to the battery negative is inadequate or the starter solenoid and motor are not actuating together because they're disconnected electrically or inappropriately shorting. I think the inadequate ground scenario is more likely. You said you connected a wire from the plate that the starter is mounted to to a wiring harness ground on the block. What about the block to negative terminal connection along with the chassis to negative terminal connection?
Excessive resistance in your ground circuit causes a voltage drop per ohm's law. It doesn't take much power to free spin the starter so it is conceivable that inadequate grounds could spin the starter without actuating the solenoid.
The other thing I would try is not jumping the terminals to try to start it and use the ignition switch instead. There's some variation on starter wiring setups and there also can be some variation on interpretation of what jumping terminals means to folks. This can eliminate additional variables

Had this same problem with my TC33.
New Holland has service bulletin on this problem. The dealership installed, I believe a diode in the starter circuit. But there is a service bulletin and they should be able to fix it or tell you how you can fix it.