TC-26DA 3 point hitch noise-skip?

[Chico]

I lent my tractor out to a friend for a little over a week, I got it back and swapped over the wood chipper that was on it to my mower. I went mowing and this noise that sounded like I dropped the mower comes from the back when i lower the 3 point hitch? I moved the 3 point hitch lever up and down, when i go up it is fine when i come down slowly it goes about 3/4 of the way then acts as if it skips a tooth or something dropping an inch or so? I have no idea how these work from the inside but everything outside looks good? is there a tooth gear on the inside that may have broken off?

Thanks for the help,

Brian

 

[Jerry/MT]

I lent my tractor out to a friend for a little over a week, I got it back and swapped over the wood chipper that was on it to my mower. I went mowing and this noise that sounded like I dropped the mower comes from the back when i lower the 3 point hitch? I moved the 3 point hitch lever up and down, when i go up it is fine when i come down slowly it goes about 3/4 of the way then acts as if it skips a tooth or something dropping an inch or so? I have no idea how these work from the inside but everything outside looks good? is there a tooth gear on the inside that may have broken off?

Thanks for the help,

Brian

It's basically a piston and rod that pushes on an offset arm on the rockshaft that cause the the rockshaft to rotate up when pump pressure is applied to the psiton. When the cylinder is ported to the sump, gravity pulls the hitch down.

 

[k0ua]

You didnt mention how fast or slow it comes down.. you might adjust the drop rate valve below the seat and see if it changes the operation any. It may be nearly closed. or have a piece of something in the valve.. adjust it by opening it, so it drops fast, then set it where you want the drop rate for the particular weight of the implement you have on, see if that helps any.

James K0UA

 

[Chico]

You didnt mention how fast or slow it comes down.. you might adjust the drop rate valve below the seat and see if it changes the operation any. It may be nearly closed. or have a piece of something in the valve.. adjust it by opening it, so it drops fast, then set it where you want the drop rate for the particular weight of the implement you have on, see if that helps any.

James K0UA

it comes down as quick as i lower the lever, I have always had it on a high rate of valving and it has never given me any trouble. I have a very lite finishing mower on the back and it goes down, and then you hear this metal "TINK" noise and it drops about 1/4-1/2 an inch and then keeps going? I removed the top bar from the 3 point hitch and it still does it? I put my hand on the arm while it goes down and you feel it almost skip? Very strange? only about 200 Hrs. on this little machine.

 

[k0ua]

Well the only thing I can think of is some kind of damage to the hydraulic cylinder on the 3pt. If some of the hydraulic oriented guys could comment here, it would be good, this is out of my realm. Hopefully this will give the thread a bump up and maybe get someone else to comment. Sorry I could not be more help. Good luck.

James K0UA

 

[SacandagaBrad]

Did your machine ever have a mid mount mower? If so, is the cushion lift system still on it? I've bent some of the linkage on mine and it will bind up 3PH on occasion, making sounds and acting very similar to what you describe.

Brad

 

[Chico]

Did your machine ever have a mid mount mower? If so, is the cushion lift system still on it? I've bent some of the linkage on mine and it will bind up 3PH on occasion, making sounds and acting very similar to what you describe.

Brad

Nope, but i went out to play with it today.... Had alot of bucket work and very little 3 point work, never the less i didnt hear a thing. I had adjusted the speed down on the hydro system as you guys mentioned. A few hrs. into the work I let it cool down and took a brake, fired it back up after lunch and worked it for about 3o more min. and took it back to the garage, shut down the tractor and slowly lowered the 3 point hitch,CLANK!

GRRRRR!!!!!!

Started it back up and moved it up and down several times till it skipped going UP once?
About 5 min. of this up and down stuff looking at everything finally ended up with a huge BANG as my mower hit the floor of the garage from its full height, now the 3 point will not go up or down.

I'm beginning to despise this little machine, 200 hrs. and this is how it acts?

 

[MiserableOldFart]

Wow, Chico. I love my TC26DA! I have never had the problem you are experiencing, but there is a quirk to my 3pt. In the winter, when it's cold, it never goes up the first time I pull the lever back. I have to do it a second time and the back blade goes up like there was never a problem, every time.. Don't know what causes it, but it's predictable. I changed the fluid this spring at 300 hrs and it looked like it could have been new, so I doubt there was any water problem or anything..

Is your machine still under warranty? I paid for the extended, but I think it runs out next month.. Don't even know if it covers the 3 pt. This is the only extended warranty I have ever purchased, only because it's a pretty expensive toy..

The only two minor complaints I have about the machine, well three if you count only 2 ranges, but I knew that going in - the seat belt could have been designed a little different to work better in icy weather, and the tiny little bowl and fuel filter should have been bigger. I change it at regular intervals and check it often, but it is so tiny that even a little bit of crud can cause problems in the field. Now I carry a new spare fuel filter in the little tool box so I can swap it out if I need to, but on a sweltering or freezing day, it's hard to get the fingers in there and unscrew the thing, and then put it back. On the irregular Catskill Mountain land, I do often wish that the wheels were a couple inches farther apart as well. Very concerned about the possibility of tipping over.

 

[Chico]

Well I took it all apart this weekend..... Never the less i dont see this as something I did or my friend. It looks as if the pin that holds the rod on the spline arm is missing, and by the looks of the metal shavings I found in the gearbox it has been going for some time. This comes down to someone at the factory screwed up and didnt put a circle clip on it or something.... Now what?

Both cases are scratched bad on the inside, the arm bracket is messed up as is the piston, and the lift pin. My gear box is FULL of metal shavings and all I want to do is choke the S.O.B. that build this tractor. What am I going to do with all of the metal in the gearbox? You know its in the bearings exc... This whole this makes me steam from my ears. I'm the sort of guy that waxes this thing twice a year and keeps it in the garage, this is my 2ed TC model, and I'm not pleased at this point with the prior TC24 or this unit. I just dont see how an entire 2-3 inch pin is just missing?

Look at the red bracket, you can tell it has been riding on the bottom of that for some time in favor of the top?

I just drained all of the fluid in the case, and shavings are on the bottom and on the diff gear, but there is no sign of the 2-3"pin that would hold everything together? I'm beginning to wonder if this thing ever had one? If you look at the first picture it looks as if the rod was riding at the bottom of the bracket for quite some time, and the piston cup has a notch at the top where it looks like the same thing, it would have worked this way, but I'm surprised it made it this long? I'm guessing because this thing is a 2006 I'm up the creek on War. but to me the factory is at fault, i mean how on earth does this just happen with ~200 hrs on it? I highly doubt that 2-3" pin got ground up without some major damage to the main gear.

 

[Jerry/MT]

Well I took it all apart this weekend..... Never the less i dont see this as something I did or my friend. It looks as if the pin that holds the rod on the spline arm is missing, and by the looks of the metal shavings I found in the gearbox it has been going for some time. This comes down to someone at the factory screwed up and didnt put a circle clip on it or something.... Now what?

Both cases are scratched bad on the inside, the arm bracket is messed up as is the piston, and the lift pin. My gear box is FULL of metal shavings and all I want to do is choke the S.O.B. that build this tractor. What am I going to do with all of the metal in the gearbox? You know its in the bearings exc... This whole this makes me steam from my ears. I'm the sort of guy that waxes this thing twice a year and keeps it in the garage, this is my 2ed TC model, and I'm not pleased at this point with the prior TC24 or this unit. I just dont see how an entire 2-3 inch pin is just missing?

Look at the red bracket, you can tell it has been riding on the bottom of that for some time in favor of the top?

I just drained all of the fluid in the case, and shavings are on the bottom and on the diff gear, but there is no sign of the 2-3"pin that would hold everything together? I'm beginning to wonder if this thing ever had one? If you look at the first picture it looks as if the rod was riding at the bottom of the bracket for quite some time, and the piston cup has a notch at the top where it looks like the same thing, it would have worked this way, but I'm surprised it made it this long? I'm guessing because this thing is a 2006 I'm up the creek on War. but to me the factory is at fault, i mean how on earth does this just happen with ~200 hrs on it? I highly doubt that 2-3" pin got ground up without some major damage to the main gear.

Chico,
I just looked at the parts diagram on Messick's web site and ther is a pin that holds the rod in the rock shaft arm and that in turn is held in place by a cotter pin. There should not be any significant side loads on the rod or the pin so a cotter pin should be sufficient to hold the pin in position. It looks to me like the pin must have been sheared and since you don't have any thing but chips, it must have gone though the gears. I believe you said you loaned it to a friend the previous week before you noticed the problem. What was he doing with it?

The hydraulic relief valve should protect the lift system from overload so either the relief didn't work in an overload situation and the pin sheared or the pin was defective. I doubt you can claim it was misassembled unless you can identify what's in those chips. I'd talk to the NH dealer you bought it from. Maybe there's a service bulletin on this problem.

 

[Chico]

He was running a 3 point wood chipper off the back, parked the tractor, lowered the 3 point and ran it as a wood chipper, I doubt this was caused from him, or anything recent. If you look at the hydro piston it is con caved to except the rounded end of the shaft, you cant see it, but it looks as if the rod was wedged between the upper end of that and the lower end of the red rocker arm for quite some time. I think it would have worked that way for a while, and thats why it was skipping. I pulled lots of chips out of the bottom of the case, but nothing that resembles enough for a large pin? the main gear dosent look damaged, so I'm a bit at odds on how a 2-3" pin is missing without damaging the main gear of the diff? If there ever was a pin, I'm guessing the clip gave out and it moved out of position causing it to fail. If you look at the one side of the red rocker arm it has been opened up from side loading stress from the pin that must have come out of the other side.

Now I'm wondering if I need to gut the case and replace all of the bearings because of all of the metal in the bottom of the case? I know I'm going to end up pulling out the axles because there is a passage way from the center dif. area out to the axle that some stuff could hide.

 

[Jerry/MT]

He was running a 3 point wood chipper off the back, parked the tractor, lowered the 3 point and ran it as a wood chipper, I doubt this was caused from him, or anything recent. If you look at the hydro piston it is con caved to except the rounded end of the shaft, you cant see it, but it looks as if the rod was wedged between the upper end of that and the lower end of the red rocker arm for quite some time. I think it would have worked that way for a while, and thats why it was skipping. I pulled lots of chips out of the bottom of the case, but nothing that resembles enough for a large pin? the main gear dosent look damaged, so I'm a bit at odds on how a 2-3" pin is missing without damaging the main gear of the diff? If there ever was a pin, I'm guessing the clip gave out and it moved out of position causing it to fail. If you look at the one side of the red rocker arm it has been opened up from side loading stress from the pin that must have come out of the other side.

Now I'm wondering if I need to gut the case and replace all of the bearings because of all of the metal in the bottom of the case? I know I'm going to end up pulling out the axles because there is a passage way from the center dif. area out to the axle that some stuff could hide.

I think you'd be prudent to check all the rear end components and flush out the areas where chips could enter. I would replace the rocker due to the wallowed out hole and possibly the rod also. Otherwise you'll be using it and be worrying about some impending failure due to chips in the bearings, etc.

I would definetly take your pictures and the parts to the local NH dealer and see what they can tell you about this type of failure. Who knows, there might be a a "hidden warranty" on this problem. They also maybe able to tell you what you need to look for in terms of consequential damage. Give them a chance to help.
I agree with you that this is a a suspicious looking failure, like the wrong sized hole in the rock shaft arm or the wrong sized retaining pin, etc.

 

[Hooked_on_HP]

In looking at your pics it apears you got kinda lucky. It looks like the pin was part way out and was hitting the side of the case and luckily it didn't put a hole in the case. You will hopefully find the pin in 1 or 2 pieces in the bottom of the case. The trans could not of ground it up. The shavings you are finding are probably from the case where the pin was hitting. It looks like the pin was part way out for a while for it to wallow the one hole like it did. I have never run a TPH chipper before. Do the vibrate alot. Could this of had somthing to do with it?
Bill

 

[Chico]

In looking at your pics it apears you got kinda lucky. It looks like the pin was part way out and was hitting the side of the case and luckily it didn't put a hole in the case. You will hopefully find the pin in 1 or 2 pieces in the bottom of the case. The trans could not of ground it up. The shavings you are finding are probably from the case where the pin was hitting. It looks like the pin was part way out for a while for it to wallow the one hole like it did. I have never run a TPH chipper before. Do the vibrate alot. Could this of had something to do with it?
Bill

The chipper is silky smooth, so I know thats not it. I tried going to the dealer, they were a bit "matter of fact" about it, and asked me if I had backed up into something? Never the less I asked them about any TSB's on the unit, and they told me nothing related to such a problem. This thing makes me want to fix it and sell it, I have had two TC models over the last few years and this will be my last unit. I will go green or orange if i sell this one. I just dont want to dump a ton of money into this thing, and have a fear it will go again. I went into my last tractor purchase thinking If I buy one and take care of it i will never have any problems, 200 hrs later this thing is broke. My grandfather had his tractor for 25 years without a single problem.

On another note i went and looked at a green tractor on Monday, i opened the hood at the dealer, and the gas cap got stuck on the hood while I opened it, the sales guy put the hood back down, and the cap wasnt centered in the hole for the hood and put a large kink in the hood on a brand new unit? Does ANYONE make a good unit anymore? How on earth did this make it through the QC line at the assembly plant?

 

[Chico]

well the local New Holland rep. went to the dealer the other day to look at the failure, he agreed with the last three people I had look at it and said... " It looks as if the cotter pin was never installed, and if it was it was not correctly installed or bent back when the tractor was build." He also said he never saw one do this and it was something that WAS the fault of the person that assembled the tractor.

Keep the above statement in mind he also said that they (New Holland) was not going to do anything outside the original warranted period of the tractor no mater who's fault it was? Mind you it has ~200 and some hours on it and I don't use the 3 point that much? I told them prior to looking at it, it wasn't my expectation that I get a free ride on this, but something just wasn't right about something failing like this, and they agreed.

Never the less I was far from happy about the attitude of the entire situation, they were also very "a mater of fact" about the entire thing. I run my own business, and I can tell you my warranty period is listed just like New Hollands, but if I see "gross negligence" on an employees part that is all out the window. The people within Corp. New Holland office even felt a bit at odds with the decision of the local rep. Never the less I asked for the statement of the rep to be emailed to me and now they have to check with there legal department?

Am I out of line on this one? I just dont see it, If GM forgot to put a large bolt in your hitch on a tow package equipped truck and you took 3 years to use the hitch and lost your trailer on the hwy. I doubt they would take the stand of "its out of warranty"

 

[Jerry/MT]

well the local New Holland rep. went to the dealer the other day to look at the failure, he agreed with the last three people I had look at it and said... " It looks as if the cotter pin was never installed, and if it was it was not correctly installed or bent back when the tractor was build." He also said he never saw one do this and it was something that WAS the fault of the person that assembled the tractor.

Keep the above statement in mind he also said that they (New Holland) was not going to do anything outside the original warranted period of the tractor no mater who's fault it was? Mind you it has ~200 and some hours on it and I don't use the 3 point that much? I told them prior to looking at it, it wasn't my expectation that I get a free ride on this, but something just wasn't right about something failing like this, and they agreed.

Never the less I was far from happy about the attitude of the entire situation, they were also very "a mater of fact" about the entire thing. I run my own business, and I can tell you my warranty period is listed just like New Hollands, but if I see "gross negligence" on an employees part that is all out the window. The people within Corp. New Holland office even felt a bit at odds with the decision of the local rep. Never the less I asked for the statement of the rep to be emailed to me and now they have to check with there legal department?

Am I out of line on this one? I just dont see it, If GM forgot to put a large bolt in your hitch on a tow package equipped truck and you took 3 years to use the hitch and lost your trailer on the hwy. I doubt they would take the stand of "its out of warranty"

These companies always fall back on the " this unit is out of warranty so there's nothing we can do". Legally they don't have to do anything and I'm sure that the legal beagles we be all over the rep that told you it was most likely misassembled at the factory. I doubt the lawyers will let that admission be put in writing because that will open them up to a potential lawsuit.

It's true their legal obligation ended when the warranty period expired but they have an unhappy customer whose misfortune it was to buy a unit that was mis-assmbled by their folks in their factory. They should make this right for you, in my opinion, for what ever that's worth. Whether they do is another story. Don't lose your cool when you deal with them and be persistent but not obnoxious. They may relent. If not, if your county has a small claims court, you may seek some relief via that process.

If not, there's an old saying "Into everyone life a little rain must fall". While I sympathize with your position and believe you are in the right, you may end up in a rain storm. Good Luck!

 

[Hooked_on_HP]

Have you talked to the dealer that you bought it from about the reps diagnosis of the cause problem.I am not sure about tractor dealers but truck dealers that I deal with can work around things that shouldn't have happened and aren't under warranty. It just takes a good warranty writer.
Bill

 

[jinman]

I went into my last tractor purchase thinking If I buy one and take care of it i will never have any problems, 200 hrs later this thing is broke.

If I understand what you are saying, you bought this tractor new from the dealer you are working with and it is now out of warranty because you just haven't put anymore than 200 hours on it. True? If you bought from another dealer or bought a used tractor, this might have some impact on whether the dealer and New Holland will be helpful. As the original owner and working through the selling dealer, I think you have a better chance. Just my opinion. . . .

If this turns out to be all on you, I'd consider getting in touch with a consumer advocate at a local TV station. It's amazing what people will do to not get negative coverage about their service or products.

 

[Chico]

If I understand what you are saying, you bought this tractor new from the dealer you are working with and it is now out of warranty because you just haven't put anymore than 200 hours on it. True? If you bought from another dealer or bought a used tractor, this might have some impact on whether the dealer and New Holland will be helpful. As the original owner and working through the selling dealer, I think you have a better chance. Just my opinion. . . .

If this turns out to be all on you, I'd consider getting in touch with a consumer advocate at a local TV station. It's amazing what people will do to not get negative coverage about their service or products.

I bought two different New Holland tractors from the same dealer, both NEW, and shortly after the 2ed one my dealer went out of business, so over the last 3 years or so I have bought all of my oil, filters, lost keys exc. from the local dealer I'm working with now. The New Holland rep had the same questions for me?

I'm not in control of my dealer & why he went out of business or the fact that some guy at the factory wasn't on his game when putting my tractor together. All I know is if someone does not step up and deal with this, local dealer or New Holland, when i send this thing to the curb in a few months i will NOT revisit ether company for its replacement. As I told the Rep on the phone the other day, I'm 35 and have bought two tractors from you, do you think this is going to be my last tractor? Is this honestly the way you wish to portray your company to some one that will replace this tractor in a few months once it is sorted out?

The facts are EVERY single person that has looked at this tractor, including the New Holland Rep, dealer, other tractor repair shop said hands down that you can see that the pin was in the case, it slid to the one side because of the absence of the cotter pin to hold it in place, for years it has ground the inside of the gearbox case until the main pin failed.

Last week the New Holland team called me after weeks of looking for a response from there "lawyers" in regards to the document that I wanted. The girl told me she would call me back on Friday no matter what, and said she was sorry for the communication, I told her that was about the 7th time i was told that but i will wait for her call on friday.

its Sunday.......

And my phone has not rang once.

Never the less i had her read the notes from the local rep that were in the system and reordered her conversation with my phone so even if they refuse to give me the documentation i have requested I have what I need.

 

[jinman]

I think your beef is primarily with New Holland. You can't blame the local dealer if he won't fix your tractor with money out of his own pocket. He has supplied your consumables for 200 hours which is almost nil. If NH won't support him, he is just going to continue to say, "Out of warranty!"
This is certainly bad business and NH owes you a fixed tractor. The cheapest way for you to put pressure on is with a local TV Station's consumer advocate. The dealer will "take it on the chin" as well as New Holland and the chance of your getting a deal from them on a future tractor (even if they do fix yours) is probably not going to happen. I believe you are at the point of having to expose NH's attitude and then be ready to go to the legal system if that doesn't work. I'm pretty sure you will need the opinion of another independent mechanic too. Nobody at the dealership nor NH can be expected to say that your tractor was assembled improperly. You will need another expert opinion to give that validity.

Chico, I'm squarely on your side and think they owe you a repair. I just think the history of NH and the dealer says you are being "sacrificed" as a customer because they aren't willing to spend the money to keep you. You are either going to have to force them through the legal system or expose them to many more lost sales than yours before you convince them to respond. Once they do respond, I doubt you will ever get a good deal or service from them again. I completely understand why you want to sell your New Hollands and find another brand. I wish you the best of luck with this.:thumbsup: