Swapping GST to HST

[bbse]

I recently purchased a new L3010 GST, FEL, R4's Folding ROPS. Love the tractor but I'm now, after 35hrs, starting to think I should have bought the HST. I didn't get a chance to drive both models and I only have myself to blame because I did most of my study after the purchase. The salesman pushed the GST hard and he also stocked mainly GST models. He has been great on everything including price so I don't distrust him. He thinks the power loss is substantial on the 3010 from the GST to the HST. Since I'm waiting for him to get an HST model for me to try, my question is, does anyone have practical experience with both types of transmissions in the same size tractor (Grand L) and is there a power real difference?

 

[allmobile]

I don't have any experience operating the 2 tractors but let me explain the difference in how they operate. The GST is a hydraulically shifted gear transmission so the power loss is similar to a regular gear drive trans. The HST uses an engine driven variable displacement pump and a fixed displacement motor that drives the transmission. The HST defineately uses more power to do the same work. What you have to ask yourself is what kind of work are you doing. If you are doing a lot of loader work the HST might be a better choice that way you won't be using the clutch all the time. If I was pulling any kind of implement I think the GST is the better choice because you have the strength of a gear drive trans. with the ease of an automatic. Both are very reliable. I have more experience with the GST just because it has been on the market longer than the L-series HST. I hope this helps.

Brian

 

[Anonymous Poster]

FWIW When I first bought my L3010 it was a GST..my dealer strongly recommended it. Using a tractor like that was very new to me. My first use was to level and grade an old garden area. After using it for less than an hour I realized that I was not going to be happy with this machine, for MY intended use. I had grading to do around the property, a driveway, and snow removal to consider. The constant need to change both speed and direction after moving relatively short distances was not something that I liked about the GST. Especially when I was turned to see what was happening with the box blade. It is probably OK for longer runs, such as mowing fields, but not what I wanted. I called the dealer for a HST (before I put any more time on the meter). He only had a L3410 HST, so I spent a few more dollars and ended up with a L3410 HST and have not regretted a minute of that decision. If I had not been such a novice to the compact tractor world, I would have opted for a HST right at the beginning.
Sorry for being so wordy.

 

[MReeter]

allmobile,from your bio I would say you could shed some light on this subject.I'm thinking of trading for an L4310.The primary use of this tractor would be to pull a Tri-Deck finish mower.The mower will be either an 11' or 13' unit,so I won't be doing a lot of changing direction or trimming.The extra H.P. on the PTO would come in handy I'm sure.Kubota's brochure shows a loss of 1-1/2 H.P. per the Hydro. trans.Does this sound about right to you?We have owned four different Kubotas over the years,all of which were Hydros.Changing to a GST would take some time to get used to,but if thats the best trans. for our application,I would'nt hesitate to go with the GST.What do you think?

 

[bbse]

Thanks guys. I'm still new to this forum but I've read a lot of posts. There is a lot of info on functional use of HST vs GST but very little about power loss (if any) of one over the other. The Kubota book doesn't list but 1.5 HP or so loss of PTO power for the HST. One post said 10 to 20% loss which would be 3 to 6 HP. That sounded really excessive. Like Tom I ask my saleman to find me a L3410 HST. If there is a power loss of 1-2 HP that should make up the difference. By the way, anyone know how much value (roughly) a L3010 will lose for 35 HRS.

 

[bbse]

One more thing. As to how I like the GST it works great in open country. Places where I don't like it are tight spots and hillsides. In tight spots you have to work shuttle lever and gear shifter many times. Can get you busy. On hillsides pick a gear and stick with it. I hit one hill in too high a gear. Shifted down and started rolling backwards before the lower gear caught. Scared me good. Learned to use brake to shift on slopes. Steep slopes I just start slow and leave it there. Patience in this case is a definite virtue.

 

[GlueGuy]

<font color=blue>Shifted down and started rolling backwards before the lower gear caught</font color=blue>

Yeah, that's a little understood issue with the GST. My neighbor has an L35 with GST, and he was telling me about it. We live in very hilly country, so almost everything is "on a slope" of some kind or other. The time-lag between shifts with the GST is downright scary on a hill, especially when you you don't have a lot of room before disaster. /w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif

The GlueGuy

 

[art]

Allmobile did a good job breaking the two types of transmissions down for you. The glideshift does have the gap between 4th and 5th where it actually does two shifts instead of one. You are right on the hydro to glideshift as far as working in tight quarters. The hydros on hard pulls will loose close to 15% of power on a hard pull vs the glideshift. The plus is less tire wear and it is easier to teach people how to drive. For mowing in tight quarters or loader work the hydro is a plus. The glideshift will give better fuel economy than the hydro. For big areas the glideshift would be best for you.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

I have both, a GST L35 and an HST BX2200. I like both of them and dislike both of them, depending on the situation. The bigger the engine the less the GST shifting matters as the torque curve is so high and flat I consider the L35 in 4th or 5th to be in "HST". I like the precision of the BX in the garage and some other places, hate the pedal (wish it had pedals like my JD garden tractor) I like to run at a lower rpm with the GST and have power in the pedal, I can't stand to have the rpm up and listen to the whine of the HST. Loader work I don't see what the big deal is with the HST and doing loader work, either one seems to work OK. (but how different!) My biggest fault with both is that there is no positive absolutely failsafe way to park either one of them on a steep hill with out blocking it, putting it into a bank, etc. Why can my 18 year old Ford NH have an ability so basic these orange guys lack? (I'm of course leaving out the fact that although the NH has synchro shift, the 4 ranges are changed by STOPPING /w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif the tractor, bending over, and stirring the stick, which appears to be in cold molasses)

The GST delay in shifting originally was somewhat of a panic for me too, over some months I without thinking put my foot on the brake pedal when shifting up or down on a hill. Maybe old dogs CAN learn new tricks!

All in all I'm pleased half the time with either and not as pleased half the time so I probably made the right choice with both. (Oh heck I have a blast ALL of the time with both of them) It was like this with my Ford NH, half the time I was complaining (to myself) it was too big (then I'd get off and grab the hand shovel) or complaining that it was too small (go rent an excavator!) so I made a good size choice with it.

Having the BX AND the L35 has made the need for a hand shovel and renting a bigger machine less likely. Like the other fellow said, it really depends on YOUR uses, for anyone considering a tractor, either find a dealer to give you a day at HOME demo, (even for a little money), or find a new one at a rental yard to try out, it will save you after sale grief. Things came up that I would never have thought about if I hadn't rented one first. The brochures look great, bombing around the dealer's parking lot is fun but an at home doing what YOU do test really lets you know what's what.../w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

del

 

[bbse]

How much noise does an HST make when under a load? I use my foot throttle a lot on my GST to control speed. It does have torque. Speaking of torque, I have a 98 Dodge 2500 SLT Quad Cab w/Cummins Diesel. I need to sell because we just purchased co. trucks, so I don't need two. Email me for details. bbse@home.com. Sorry for the sales pitch. Did I mention the red paint, leather seats and bed cover? While were on diesels, someone posted that you should run these tractors at a constant speed on the engines instead of using a foot throttle as much. Anybody know why?

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Re: Swapping GST to HST-Maintaining PTO Speed

<font color=blue>...Someone posted you should run these tractors at a constant speed on the engines instead of using a foot throttle as much. Anybody know why? ...</font color=blue>

Using any PTO driven implement, remember the PTO drive shaft should be going 540 rpm {ASAE industry standard}. Check your engine tach, for the 540 rpm mark...

Each tractor will be slightly different, on my Massey 135 & 165, it's 1689 rpm; the Satoh is 2500 rpm; and JD is 2200 rpm.

Most groundwork is done between 2 - 8 mph; avg. fieldwork is 5 mph optimum. Check your owners manual, your rear tire sizes, and generate a "mph chart" @ 540 PTO/rpm to stay within these ranges.

For example, you're in low range, 4th gear @ 2200 eng/rpm with 16.9 - 28 rear tires going 5.52 mph with the PTO implement going 540 rpm... If you decide to "Throttle down" to 1500 eng/rpms, your PTO drive shaft slows down to 400 rpm... now cutting even 1-2" brush becomes a nightmare if not impossible...{now your PTO HP is half as much}

So instead, you want to "Gear down" to say 2nd gear, keeping the same engine rpm @ 2200 eng/rpm, in turn keeping the PTO shaft going @ 540 rpm, but now your traveling speed is 2.79 mph.

Remember that '540' mark on the tach is the sweet spot for PTO HP, lower means less HP to do the job as well as non-standard slower PTO drive shaft speeds.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Constant speed is probably more efficient, fuel vs power wise, but if constant speed was a must all those diesel trucks out there would be in a sorry state as they are always up and down. I've got about 1400 hours on my Ford NH tractor, I don't lug it, and add throttle lightly at the lower rpms.

My 2 cents. OK, My 1 cent...

del