Surveyor woes- any advice???

[Dmace]

Dmace, it might be very worthwhile to comment on your statement to help clear up confusion on accuracy.

In another life many years ago I worked on survey crews that were setting third order monuments. We worked from first and second order monuments using wild T1, Geodometers, Titanium rods with sunshades and temperature recordings. Needless to say the technology used is now in museums and the methods I have long since forgotten.

Ahh the technology, we used a lot of that stuff back in college just to learn how it was done. In some cases we had to reuse some old technology like a steel tape with a pull-type weight gauge to verify the distances the previous owner recorded. That's when you need to explain to the judge that your new fangled GPS device is much more accurate than his Tom-Tom and that is why my measurement is 6ft shorter than the previous survey.

 

[buckeyefarmer]

I'm getting a survey done soon. I asked him if he uses GPS system, he said no, not acurate enough.... I'm wondering if he just doesn't want to put out the money for the equipment...

 

[2manyrocks]

For all this technology, I think our courts in Tennessee go by established monuments first (trees, rocks, etc) and surveys are somewhere down the list in terms of what judges will rely on in determining the property line in a boundary dispute. In short, the judges trust the location of the trees and the rocks more than the surveyor descriptions.

 

[riptides]

For all this technology, I think our courts in Tennessee go by established monuments first (trees, rocks, etc) and surveys are somewhere down the list in terms of what judges will rely on in determining the property line in a boundary dispute. In short, the judges trust the location of the trees and the rocks more than the surveyor descriptions.

Yes, I brought this up earlier. A visit to the courthouse is always recommended before a surveyor commences work. I have stone pillars that date back 100's of years, and a creek on the property. These give insight into original boundaries and plat lines. GPS can aid in the refinement and accuracy of markers, but it must be done in accordance with originally documented natural markers if they still exist.

 

[Stradbash]

I'm getting a survey done soon. I asked him if he uses GPS system, he said no, not acurate enough.... I'm wondering if he just doesn't want to put out the money for the equipment...

I have had my property surveyed over the last few weeks. I asked the surveyor if he was using GPS. His response was that he owned the equipment to do so but that it did not work well when there were trees nearby..., which I have plenty of.

 

[Dmace]

GPS is more accurate but it takes longer. Their are two main differences in GPS data collection, Static and RTK (Real Time Kinematic). With static GPS, the receivers are left in one position for about 45mins depending on number and position of satellites, accuracy settings, and epochs (time interval between point collection). Even in heavy tree coverage, static GPS works and works well because the satellites are moving and the antenna will find open areas where the signal works. It takes longer to get the accuracy expected but not much more then 25%.

RTK is as fast and most times faster than transit surveying but needs pretty open sky and no large metal structures nearby (causes multi-pathing). I have seen accuracies down to 0.1ft with a Trimble R8 rover in "Fast-Static" mode where you hold the rod over a point and wait about 2-3 mins while it collects data and your done. For topo it can't be beat since you don't need a line of sight to the transit and it's a one man operation. For accuracies of 0.25 ft (good for 2ft contours) you can sit on one spot as little as 20 seconds and get the shot. As we get more satellites and access to other satellite systems like Europe's Galileo, we will get faster and more accurate GPS no matter how dense the tree coverage is.

Accuracy is a poor excuse for not using GPS these days as long as you know how to use it. Even tree coverage is not as big an issue, I would rather wait by a GPS unit a little longer to get the shot then have to cut down a line of small trees and limbs just to get a line of sight to the transit. Landowners don't like seeing you walk into their woods with a 36" machete and Swedish axe.

 

[SuperDuty335]

Yes, I brought this up earlier. A visit to the courthouse is always recommended before a surveyor commences work. I have stone pillars that date back 100's of years, and a creek on the property. These give insight into original boundaries and plat lines. GPS can aid in the refinement and accuracy of markers, but it must be done in accordance with originally documented natural markers if they still exist.

You're right. Natural monuments are controlling over any other type of monument or description.

 

[J_J]

Doesn't anybody have to register land surveys. It would seem logical to do so, so anyone interesting in the property can go to a central place and research data. It also seems like, that every time a surveyor does a job, that some difference is found. With all the different ways of measuring, that should be a standard set up and required. A certified copy of the survey to the owner and to the court house.

Has any one seen or heard that a GPS survey has over ridden a past survey.

I have heard that the accuracy can be quite good, but will it stand up in court. It would be interesting to hear one surveyor convince a judge that has no knowledge about surveying, that his survey is right over the objections of the other surveyor, who are both knowledgeable.

 

[300UGUY]

I talked to a surveyor about this recently. Before he publishes anything, he researches the adjoining surveys to resolve discrepancies. He said the surveyors seldom go to court, they don't make money there!!

 

[Dmace]

All boundaries are up to interpretation of the previous deed/plan, you would go crazy trying to follow some of the deeds I have come across. For example, start at "pile of stones" and run n/ly (northerly?) to a large deciduous tree, turn towards bend in river, run 3 rods along said river (bank or center?) to rounded rock (?), turn s/ly (southerly?) and continue path to POB (point of beginning).

Now you go out to the property and look for a pile of stones which is under 30 years of leaves and needles and cannot be found with metal detector, so you look for a large deciduous tree and find 5-10 trees that are all pretty large, so you start at the river which is an easy one but one line has no monument just a "bend" which changes yearly with floods and droughts, so you look for a "rounded rock", ha! Good Luck!

The best a surveyor can do is go around and try to find the neighboring land's monuments and recreate their deeds. If not, then you use tree lines, rock walls, mow lines, rivers, and "assumed boundaries" to get it close enough. If their are any disputes between neighbors then they can either agree on a "Boundary Line Agreement" or bring it to court and fight it out. Either way, the most current survey done by a licensed surveyor usually wins and I always record our plans in the registry even if it's not necessary. They only require subdivisions and lot line adjustments to be recorded around here.

You can ask your surveyor to record the plan at the registry, it's usually only about $20-40 extra but has to be signed and stamped by a licensed surveyor in that state.