Survey recourse?

[KennethBrown]

A pipeline is coming through my land. I give permission for the survey crews with stipulations that are in writing. One of my stipulations is that absolutely no brush, trees, grass, shrubs etc are to be cut. I have several trees that are cut down and lots of scrub brush in violation of the agreement. Another stipulation is that I be present when they enter and when they leave. I've had 4 crews on my land and none have complied. After I found the second crew while still on the land I contacted the main company. A man there assured me that from that point forward everything would be to our agreement. Well he has called before the last 2 crews entered but not before they left. If this is what I am to expect of my wishes why would I want to allow them to enter anymore? Anybody been there before? In the end what did you get per foot? Did they pay per tree destroyed also? What about creek crossings, what did they do to stop erosion?

 

[JJT]

With today's technolgy, (GPS) I see no reason for them to be cutting trees. Line of sight is no longer needed.

If this is the way they are going to treat you during the honeymoon, what's the contruction phase going to look like? Sounds like you would be better off telling them no. They will be cutting trees and brush when the construction starts, the pipeline is going to look like a 100' wide clearcut with a roadbed running along the actual pipeline.

 

[Highbeam]

"With today's technolgy, (GPS) I see no reason for them to be cutting trees. Line of sight is no longer needed."

That's not really the way it is. GPS is more of a novelty than a tool for the vast majority of today's surveyors.

As far as recourse, you are at a point of calling the surveyor and revoking the agreement. The next crew out will then be trespassing with the cops on their way.

Likely the construction crew will be a total different outfit with their own set of business prcatices. Maybe better, maybe worse. Your property will be damaged and the road you speak of will forever be a dumping ground, 4x4 playground, and source of general riff-raff.

Unless there's lots of money in it, I would send them packing.

 

[rozett]

I agree with Highbeam. I would send them a certified letter that outlines the requirements they agreed to and the violations of that agreement. Then make it clear that they are not welcome on the property and that any transgressions will result in you pressing charges for trespassing. I would also post No Trespassing signs at the boundaries where they have been working. If you have a lawyer on retainer, I would check with him/her.

 

[inveresk]

I would write them a certified letter withdrawing your permission to access your land on the basis that they have violated the agreement and caused unnecessary damage. If they arrive on your property again, call the police and have them removed. Once they agree in writing to recompense you for the damage done (you might want to include some punitive damages also), to fully comply with the conditions you previously defined in writing, you can consider allowing them back on the property under the direction of a supervising monitor who is under your direction but wno they pay for. In advance.

 

[YanmarFever]

I had a pipeline in my backyard, for the 12 yrs. I lived there
the pipeline folks always came & went as they pleased and always left a mess behind them half the time.
I NEVER received any $ for it. It was a pita the whole time I lived there, mud , torn up blacktop, worn grass, fence removed ,airplane 3x a week right over our roof ect... you get the picture ?
never again.

 

[txdon]

<font color="blue">"A pipeline is coming through my land." </font>


Hmmm. That line there says it all. My Dad had 2 pipelines come through his land. They made a mess of his pond. There was lots of erosion. They destroyed a lot of his trees.

Why do you think they need your permission. If indeed a pipeline is coming through your land, and they need to survey they will do it. Period.

The best you can do is to pester them enough to pay for the damage they do to your land and they might give you enough to make it right.

Eliminate Domain sucks. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

Edit: Oh by the way one farmer did take the pipeline company to court and he won with the jury but a judge reversed the jury's decision on appeal. He now has a pipeline also.

 

[KennethBrown]

Thats what I am worried about. I have a gas well that is across the street from my current house. I don't get any royolties from it. What a pain in the a$$. At the farm I don't have oil and gas but I do have surface. So far I haven't gotten a gas well, keep your fingers crossed for me. Clearing some of the land would be a good thing for me. I have 36 acres half of which is wooded. It has a huge creek running through it which they would have to cross several times. That means they would have to build bridges or huge culverts. Once they cleared part of this land I could stipulate that it be planted back in grass. That would help me since I have horses on it right now and goats coming soon. The money from the line would be nice as I need better fences. Its one of those things were they are gonna do it anyhow, I might as well make some money from it. Right now I am documenting all of the phone calls and taking pictures. Hopefully this will help me when it comes time to talk about money and them sticking to their end of the deal. I do feel like I need to be seeing the lawyer pretty soon too though.

 

[Volfandt]

About 12 yrs ago the local utility contacted me saying they wanted to talk to me about running a gas line along the front of my property to service a new subdivision going up just down the road.
They showed up and we started negotiating, well not really negtiateing as they were pretty much telling me what they'd give and do as opposed to working with me.
When we got down to the brass tacks I said "what if I say no" and they retorted that they'd send another agent out to talk to me. I asked what would happen if I told them no and they said that I could had better hire lawyer because they were going to utilize the right of way along the road with or without my permission. Eminent Domain..... Ends up my county has a right of way along the property lines.....
They did pay $2 a foot and agreed to run a line and set a meter up at the house (200' run from the road to my house) in exchange for my sig.

I called 'em back 3 times to fix what they tore up and it took over 6 months before they were done with me.

Unfortunately I don't know what recourse you'll have but keeping in their faces, always letting the management know when their crews mess things up, may get everything fixed back. I do know if you say nothing they'll go about their way without giving what they're doing to your property a 2nd thought......

Good luck
Volfandt

 

[Panache]

Talk to a forestry lawyer. In Alabama if they intentionally damage a tree on your property it is 3 times its current value at the mill to you with a minimum value of $20 per tree. Minimum damage is $60/tree. Each and every tree even the one 1" in diameter.

 

[Panache]

Do you have mineral rights to your land? If you do they are supposed to be paying royalties to anyone with in so many feet of an active well. If you don't have mineral rights you are just out of luck.

 

[Bird]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( running a gas line along the front of my property )</font>

I'm sure it's different in different parts of the country, but when I was doing gas leakage surveys, which meant walking along all the gas lines with my instruments, I found one place where a gas line ran a long ways straight down the north side of a street or road. It was behind a row of businesses and there was nothing but pasture on the other side of the road. However, at one point the line made a 90 degree turn left across the road into the pasture, a 90 degree turn right, ran 100' parallel to the road but in the pasture, another 90 degree turn right, back across the road, then continued down the north side of the road. Naturally, I had to ask the gas company guy why they did that and he said at the time they installed the line, the one business refused them permission to cross the back of his property so they went around. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif Of course, I understand they explained to him that he better never want natural gas service to his business in the future. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[YanmarFever]

Whoaaa ! hold everything. Ken you need to negotiate BEFORE,
not after the mess is made. That is very important,and get it in writing too.

 

[sweettractors]

Ken, I bet the company that is running the line would be bonded in your state. They pretty much have to put things back as they were here in Ky or forfeit the bond and the state will come in and do it for them?--Ken Sweet

Sweet Farm Equipment LLC *Over 70 used 1-2 and 3 bottom turning plows in stock today*

 

[joerocker]

Take LOTS of pictures NOW before any REAL damage. Then you have evidence of how it DID look!

 

[TC18guy]

The survey crews are probably more or less locals sub-contracted by the pipeline company. When we surveyed a proposed major electric route through our county, the utility wanted us to obtain the permissions from the property owners and send them back to the utility (a P.R. move). I'm guessing there isn't much communication between the utility and the survey crews.

The brush clearing probably is necessary for the survey, as Highbeam said, GPS is usually a luxury for most surveyors, and it is also useless in the woods. It should not be cut without your permission though. I'd keep leaning on the pipeline guy to give you better communication. From what others have posted you could use a good contact for construction and post-construction phases.

 

[Jimbrown]

I have no idea what the Texas law is but I bet it is similar to Arizona. Here is the Az statute on the subject.

33-104. Right of person making land survey to enter lands; damages for injury to lands

A. Any person who is registered as a land surveyor under title 32, chapter 1 or who is an employee of the United States government may enter upon lands within this state to perform necessary work relating to land surveys, and may establish permanent monuments and erect the necessary signals and temporary observatories without committing unnecessary injury. The person making a survey under this section shall make every reasonable effort to give oral or written notice of the survey to the owner of the land before entering the land.

B. If the parties interested cannot agree upon the amount of damages caused thereby, either may petition the superior court to assess the damages.

C. The person entering lands for a land survey as provided by this section may tender to the injured party damages therefor, and if the damages finally assessed do not exceed the amount tendered, he shall recover costs. Otherwise the injured party shall recover costs.

D. Notwithstanding this section, the owner or owner's agent may deny entry to normally restricted or hazardous areas.

 

[TC18guy]

Michigan law is simillar. The surveyor is not liable beyond actual damages. Most surveys cannot be done without trespassing on neighboring properties, that is what the right-of-entry laws are designed to protect. I have pushed the right of entry issue on neighbors very very few times in my career, It is always better to be diplomatic and apologetic first. We would never cut down a valuable tree to do the survey and avoid as much brushing as possible as it takes too much time, it is easier to go around.