Subcompact TLB Comparisons

RayCo · Aug 24, 2005

Here is another "what tractor should I get" post.

Here's my situation:

I have decided to get a tractor with a loader and a backhoe. I'm looking to get, basically, the smallest tractor that I can that isn't a piece of junk. My needs:

I do not need to do any mowing. I have an ordinary lawn tractor for that. For 3PT type of stuff, I have an old Wheel Horse D-180. So, 99% of the usage of my new tractor would involve the BH and FEL (so I hope). If I need to go beyond the abilities of a small LTB, I can beg father-in-law a few thousand yards down the road to lend me his "real" backhoe.

Pending projects:
Dig trenches for water lines and electric lines.
Dig a bigger and better firepit.
Dig up about 25 roots from 75' tulip poplars.
Transport groceries from the car to the house in FEL just for the heck of it.

The tractors that I'm currently comparing:

Kubota BX23
Massey GC2310
Cub Cadet 6284D
Kioti LB914, CK20, or CK20HST

Based on the experiences that y'all have had, are there any other tractors that I should be considering, or any of these that I should eliminate right away?

I'm in south eastern Pennsylvania, should that matter for pricing.

Thank you!!!

Ray

nasdaqsam · Aug 24, 2005

I can only speak for two of the ones you have listed.

I have the BX23 and like it very much. My friend has the Massey and likes the tractor but the dealer does little for him so he wished he would have bought the Kubota. (No fault of the tractor). I would check out the JD also, I've had several and they all worked great. In this line of tractors there really isn't a dog or a not to buy one. They will all be capable performers.

All I can say is try them out and make sure you get a good dealer that will back their product and take good care of you.

I can not say enough about the dealer I chose. They go way over and above on everything for me.

Good Luck

jim_wilson · Aug 24, 2005

If you are looking to pretty much dedicate the tractor towards being a TLB then you might want to also consider the JD 2210 (now 2305) with a Woods Groundbreaker X backhoe. The reason I say this is because the 2210/2305 are the only subcut tractor(s) that have a quick attach on the FEL bucket.
This is something I really wish I had on my BX23 because I could swap on forks, a rock bucket, boom pole, etc.

I have also heard that the GC2310 and JD SubCUTs may have slightly higher capabilities than the Kubota BX but to my knowledge there has never been a head to head comparison.
I currently have about 315 hours on my BX23 and it has served me well so far. I have pretty much used mine for the same things you want one for - a lot of excavation, digging up roots and stumps, moving rocks, random excavation projects, etc. There has been a few times when I wished that the tractor had more capacity so looking at the CK20 or say the Kubota B7610 or New Holland, John Deere, Cub Cadet etc. equivalents might be worth your time.

KentT · Aug 24, 2005

Since you have access to both a larger backhoe and a tractor with 3-PT, have you considered a Power Trac? They have inexpensive trenchers and minihoes that'll do most (if not all) of what you describe, and in some cases considerably faster. Plus, as an articulated machine like a payloader, they'll outperform any of the ones you have listed as a loader...

Bob_Skurka · Aug 24, 2005

The tractors that I'm currently comparing:

Kubota BX23
Massey GC2310
Cub Cadet 6284D
Kioti LB914, CK20, or CK20HST


Neither the Cub nor the Kiotis are Sub-Compacts, those are small frame compacts and will be larger, taller, heavier and offer stronger lift capacities than either the little Kubota or the little Massey. All 4 will do the tasks you ask. And as KentT wrote, so will a Power Trac.

RayCo · Aug 24, 2005

Thank you all. I have some more investigating to do now.

No one mentioned the Terramite. I wonder if that was on purpose.

Thanks,

Ray

KentT · Aug 24, 2005

As far as I know, all Terramites are 2WD... that's why they don't often come to mind. But, what do I know? /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Bob_Skurka · Aug 24, 2005

( Thank you all. I have some more investigating to do now.

No one mentioned the Terramite. I wonder if that was on purpose.

Thanks,

Ray )

I generally don't mention brands that are not asked about. There are many more choices than you have listed but unless you tell us what dealers is in your area, or how far you are willing to travel or a whole bunch of other facts, then it is often hard to give realistic answers. I for one am often offended by the posts that say something like "you didn't mention BRAND X, I just got one, you should buy my brand, its cheaper and better . . . " Heck, how does that person know if you even have a dealer in your area? But more specifically, in your first, you actually wrote that you are considering 4 specific brands. As all 4 brands will do what you want, I didn't see the need to add more brands. There are many other posters with more experience than I who will not inject other brands that are not asked about. So perhaps that is why nobody mentioned Terrimite?

Now based on your most recent post what other brands are in your area? Also, while you want a TLB, do you want a small one that won't tear up too much while it digs (sub-compact), or do you want as much capacity as you can get in a modest size (compact) and then you'll use it to put things back together after they are torn up? And since you have 2 sub-compacts and 2 compacts as your choices, and as the Terrimite is not a sub-compact, then is small size actually an issue?

RayCo · Aug 24, 2005

( 
I generally don't mention brands that are not asked about. There are many more choices than you have listed but unless you tell us what dealers is in your area, or how far you are willing to travel or a whole bunch of other facts, then it is often hard to give realistic answers.)

Makes sense to me. I wasn't complaining about noone mentioning terramite, and I hope it didn't come off that way.

Aside from the brands that I listed, I don't really know of (m)any others. I briefly looked at Case tractors, but it seems that by the time you get to a tractor that offers a backhoe attachment, it's way bigger and more expensive than what I'm looking for. There are a bunch of JD dealers in my area, but I'm really not a fan of John Deere. (I will have to consider them though, because I didn't realize any tractors had the quick attach thing that Jim mentioned.)

( Now based on your most recent post what other brands are in your area? Also, while you want a TLB, do you want a small one that won't tear up too much while it digs (sub-compact), or do you want as much capacity as you can get in a modest size)

I didn't realize that two of the models I listed were compacts as opposed to compacts. Right now, I'm searching mainly by looking at brands I've heard of, and looking at their smallest tractor that supports a BH. The size of the tractor is important. Someone keeps trying to sell me a Ford 3400 TLB for a very good price, but while it'd be a good deal and a capable machine, it is much more important for me to get something that I can tuck away in the garage and that is turnkey.

Thanks

Bob_Skurka · Aug 24, 2005

In the SUB-Compact size tractors, you have the following choices:

Case DX"e" series
New Holland TZ series
Cub Caded 5000 series
All 3 of the above are (last time I checked) not available with a factory backhoe, but all 3 can be fitted with small aftermarket hoes. The Case and the New Holland machines are identical mechanically, they are both made by Case-New Holland Corp.

Simplicity Legacy
Massey GC
Kubota BX
I believe all 3 of the above are available with a factory backhoe option.

JD, I believe now has come out with a factory backhoe option, but I'm not positive of that.

All of the above share some characteristics. They offer only modest ground clearance, typically about 7" to 8". They are all basically low profile, low center of gravity machines. For the most part, they have plenty of horsepower, typically in the 23hp range, although you probably won't use much of it since you are running PTO powered equipment. All of them a fairly light weight. All of these tractors will easily fit through a garage door, even a low door.

You also picked the Kioti CK20 and the 6000 series Cubs. Both of those are physically larger and typically heavier (for example the CK20 weighs rougly 3400 pounds with a BH and FEL installed). These two tractors will have roughly 10" to 12" of ground clearance and their FEL and BH capacities will be greater than the Sub Compacts. They would compare in SIZE with the JD4115, the Case DX23, the New Holland TC23 and other similar tractors. The CK20 actually would also be heavier than all of these tractors too. You wrote I briefly looked at Case tractors, but it seems that by the time you get to a tractor that offers a backhoe attachment, it's way bigger and more expensive than what I'm looking for. . . it is much more important for me to get something that I can tuck away in the garage . In all likelyhood you were looking at the Case DX23 or DX26, those are the same physical size as the CK20 or the Cub 6000 series machines. The Kioti will likely be priced lower than other machines of this size range and will be competitive in price with the Sub-CUTS. But if size and weight of the small frame Case DX models are a concern, then any of these tractors will be too big and too heavy. Depending on the height of your garage door (assume a standard 7' height), the tire choice on the tractor and the height of the ROPS, some of these machines may scrape the trim board as you pull them into the garage.

dbear · Aug 24, 2005

There's also the Ingersoll 7000 series. Nice machines, but air-cooled gas engines; no diesel option.

RayCo · Aug 24, 2005

( There's also the Ingersoll 7000 series. Nice machines, but air-cooled gas engines; no diesel option. )

With all the googling and what not that I've done over the past 6 weeks or so, I can't believe I didn't come across these machines. Thanks a lot.

NY_Yankees_Fan · Aug 24, 2005

Ingersoll is in chapter 11 and is in the process of being sold to another company see info below. Guees we will see what the new compnay will offer.

Wednesday, August 17, 2005

Deal may create jobs in Portland

By EDWARD D. MURPHY, Portland Press Herald Writer

Copyright © 2005 Blethen Maine Newspapers Inc.
E-mail this story to a friend

Portland could gain more than a dozen manufacturing jobs next year as Eastman Industries moves a recently acquired maker of lawn and garden tractors from Wisconsin to Maine.

Eastman makes a line of walk-behind lawn mowers, including the lightweight Hovermower. Last spring, the Portland-based company purchased Wisconsin-based Ingersoll Equipment Co., which specializes in larger lawn tractors, commercial mowers and small backhoes.

On Monday, the Portland City Council approved up to $3.25 million in industrial revenue bonds that will allow Eastman to purchase a new manufacturing facility on Riverside Drive, where it will be able to consolidate the Eastman and Ingersoll oper- ations.

Nick Nikazmerad, Eastman's president, said it probably would have made more sense to move his operations to the Midwest, since he currently operates out of a smaller space with fewer employees in Portland than there are in Winneconne, Wis., where Ingersoll is located.

"I live in Maine and I love Maine and that is, I suppose, the only good reason" to combine the operations here, Nikazmerad said.

Nikazmerad said most of the parts for Eastman mowers are built by local manufacturers, and he has five employees who help design and assemble the mowers in Portland. He plans to use the same approach with the Ingersoll line and said he expects the move to Maine to create 10 to 15 new jobs here.

A few key Ingersoll employees have been offered jobs in Maine, he said, and will move east.

James Cloutier, a Portland city councilor, said the opportunity to land some manufacturing jobs caught the city's interest, since they are usually jobs that pay well and are more secure than many in the service sector.

"Frankly, that's something we do pay attention to," Cloutier said. "If you put a factory in place . . . it really helps support the base of the economy."

The bonds are not the responsibility of the city and don't affect Portland's bond rating, but they do allow the company issuing them to offer tax-exempt interest, which usually results in a lower interest rate.

Staff Writer Edward D. Murphy can be contacted at 791-6465 or at:

emurphy@pressherald.com

LBrown59 · Aug 25, 2005

(
1* I'm looking to get, basically, the smallest tractor that I can .

A/Kubota BX23
B/Massey GC230
C/Cub Cadet 6284D
D/Kioti LB914, CK20, or CK20HST
Ray)
1* A and B are the only tractors on your list that meet this criteria.
C and D are larger tractors.
A & B are both great tractors I would shop around and by from the best dealer with the best price.

LBrown59 · Aug 25, 2005

( I would check out the JD also .
Good Luck )
========
That would be the 2210 but it don't have a Back hoe option.

LBrown59 · Aug 25, 2005

1*You might want to consider the JD 2210 (now 2305) with a Woods Groundbreaker X backhoe.
2*I have also heard that the GC2310 and JD SubCUTs may have slightly higher capabilities than the Kubota BX.

 =================== 
 1* You have to watch that this don't cost more than buying a tractor with tha OEM Back Hoe.
My BX 23 was 15500 with the OEM Backhoe.
I would have had to have gotten the Woods BH plus the installation of it for less than 3800 dollars to beat the 15500 price I paid for my BX23.
Another thing is The Rops on the JD 2210 may be to short to combine with a BH.
2*Since my BX 23 has done everying I wanted it to do why should it matter about slightly higher capabilities that I may never use.

LBrown59 · Aug 25, 2005

(
No one mentioned the Terramite. I wonder if that was on purpose.
Thanks,
Ray )
========
Perhaps it's because they weren't worth mentioning or they just don't measure up..

LBrown59 · Aug 25, 2005

( As far as I know, all Terramites are 2WD... that's why they don't often come to mind. But, what do I know? /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif )

A local equipment rental place here has 3 4WD rental Terramites .

Phoenix1 · Aug 25, 2005

Suggest you also look at the Simplicity Legacy XL. Very similar to the MF GC2310. The FEL is a slick walk-on with 500lb capicity and includes weight box for 3-pt hitch. Same one as on the MF2927.

Look at the Dihatsu 27HP 3 cyl liquid cooled diesel. Tractor is 4WD with a turning radius of 32" and 55" when 4WD engaged. (I have heard that the backhoe is the only one on the market that can be purchased separately and not at time of tractor buy, if that is important.)

http://www.simplicitymfg.com/legacy_xl.php#

Good Luck.

LBrown59 · Aug 25, 2005

Suggest you also look at the Simplicity Legacy XL.

Look at the Dihatsu 27HP 3 cyl liquid cooled diesel. (I have heard that the backhoe is the only one on the market that can be purchased separately and not at time of tractor buy) 
~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~
When I priced the Simplicity Legacy XL I was Quoted 20500
I had already gotten a price of 15500 for the BX 23.
I was hoping to pay less than 15500 when I went to the Simplicity Legacy XL dealer not 5000 more.
Had the Simplicity Legacy XL came in around 11500 to 12500 I would have seriously considered it over the BX23.

The Simplicity Legacy XL is the only small tractor ( that I know of ) that you can buy the tractor and later buy the OEM backhoe.

I may give Simplicity a second chance if they can beat the
$9000 deal I've been offered on a New Kubota BX1500.