Subaru Automobiles

[Torvy]

All that said, perhaps there is a person here who bought a brand new 2006 Toyota, still has it and NEVER has had a problem with the car other than average maintence.

First Toyota wa a '92 Camry we bought with about 15k on it. Drove it for 20 years or so. We bought a 2005 Prius and I drove it for a few years. Not a lick of trouble except when some idiot cut me off and I avoided her, but hit a tree. Traded it for a '13 Camry Hybrid that my oldest still drives. We've owned 2 Siennas (new '98 and used '08). Had a new 2020 Prius Prime we traded for our '17 Tundra. Also own an '06 Matrix that our youngest drives. Parents also bought a Camry(s) and a Prius after seeing and riding in ours. Older daughter bought her own '22 Camry Hybrid.

Among all of those, the only mechanical or cosmetic issues on any of them has been the exterior door handles on the Matrix. Of course, the Matrix was a joint venture with GM (Vibe) built in Fremont.

Even with all of my anecdotal evidence, I still think you cannot look just at examples, even those from a mechanic, and make assumptions. The larger data set that CR uses gives you a much better indication of your odds of reliable service.

 

[Sigarms]

The larger data set that CR uses gives you a much better indication of your odds of reliable service.

If by CR you mean Consumer Reports, I can tell you for a fact that the information they provide is very unreliable at least when it comes to heating and air conditioning equipment.

For example and easy to understand, years ago they had Rheem ranked at the top in one category and Ruud ranked at the very bottom in the same catagory (I believe you have a Ruud now in your own new home). Here is the thing, Rheem and Ruud are the EXACT same equipment, the only thing that is different is the name badge, and when you get to a higher cost equipment with more "features and benifits", Rheem starts their model with a "R" and Ruud starts their model with a "U". SAME EQUIPMENT DOWN TO THE SCREW (at least on the heat pump side).

I know for a fact that some HVAC manufacturers have tried going directly to consumer reports to find out exactly how they gather their information, and they all have been told to pound sound by consumer reports.

If this is how Consumer Reports handles HVAC equipment, I honestly don't see them doing anything different with vehicles.

When you have third party people making money by providing "statistics" on products sold, beware.

 

[California]

The larger data set that CR uses gives you a much better indication of your odds of reliable service.

... Rheem starts their model with a "R" and Ruud starts their model with a "U". SAME EQUIPMENT DOWN TO THE SCREW (at least on the heat pump side)....If this is how Consumer Reports handles HVAC equipment, I honestly don't see them doing anything different with vehicles.
When you have third party people making money by providing "statistics" on products sold, beware.

Consumer Reports sometimes makes boneheaded choices but overall they're a better source of what the customer will experience compared to any other source, in many categories. Sounds like that HVAC difference comes down to the quality of the installer, not the hardware.

My favorite example of this boneheadedness is I've never seen them review anything from Harbor Freight.

CR doesn't exist to make money for its owners. Its a non-profit that was started by some dreamers who thought reviews serving the customer and free of bias, were badly needed. This is still their guiding principle. Maybe think of them as a left-over example of what the idealists of the 1930's (and later, the Whole Earth Catalogue founders) expected to become mainstream - before we learned that human nature just doesn't work how those idealists expected. I'm sure CU pays good salaries but it isn't a profit-motivated enterprise. Recognize their perspective to understand their reviews!

I agree with Torvy, a survey of a broad number of existing customers using valid statistical methods, is likely the best information available for a potential customer in many categories.

 

[Torvy]

Sig, I highly respect your opinion, especially on HVAC related things. I respectfully disagree on this point. I just went to the CR site. Rudd and Rheem both got a 3/5 for both Reliability and Customer Satisfaction.

CR doesn't 'rate' AC units because of too many variables (size of home, climate, installation, etc.) In fact, similar to your own views, this is a quote from their site. "...finding a trustworthy contractor to install and service the air conditioning system matters the most."

 

[Slowpoke Slim]

All that said, perhaps there is a person here who bought a brand new 2006 Toyota, still has it and NEVER has had a problem with the car other than average maintence.

My wife still has her '07 4Runner. I can't say it's NEVER had an issue, but the few it's had have all been self inflicted. She's on her THIRD rack and pinion assembly in that car, which I find incredibly outrageous, but she's never seen a pot hole, curb, or concrete parking curb that she didn't like.

It's never had a power train issue other than when it got towed from an accident, the tow truck driver towed it with front wheels down and wheel lifted the rears. Even though I specifically requested a flatbed tow truck. A few months later 4wd low range stopped working entirely, and you have to fiddle with it to get it to engage 4wd Hi range. Of course tow company did their best "dumb looks" impression when confronted with it. Toyota dealer wanted $3500 to fix (almost all labor, but trans and transfer case have to come down). Hi range still works, and that's what it needs most in winter, so it's still as is.

Engine (V-6) and transmission have been rock solid. It's on it's 3rd set of shocks (see above vs. "pot holes", etc), and I think it's 2nd set of brakes.

Car has 160K on it now (I think, I don't drive it).

 

[Hay Dude]

If by CR you mean Consumer Reports, I can tell you for a fact that the information they provide is very unreliable at least when it comes to heating and air conditioning equipment.

For example and easy to understand, years ago they had Rheem ranked at the top in one category and Ruud ranked at the very bottom in the same catagory (I believe you have a Ruud now in your own new home). Here is the thing, Rheem and Ruud are the EXACT same equipment, the only thing that is different is the name badge, and when you get to a higher cost equipment with more "features and benifits", Rheem starts their model with a "R" and Ruud starts their model with a "U". SAME EQUIPMENT DOWN TO THE SCREW (at least on the heat pump side).

I know for a fact that some HVAC manufacturers have tried going directly to consumer reports to find out exactly how they gather their information, and they all have been told to pound sound by consumer reports.

If this is how Consumer Reports handles HVAC equipment, I honestly don't see them doing anything different with vehicles.

When you have third party people making money by providing "statistics" on products sold, beware.

Is Lennox better than most? I have Lennox HVAC equipment on my first and second floor (dual systems) and they lasted 20 years With minimal upkeep.

 

[Sigarms]

Is Lennox better than most? I have Lennox HVAC equipment on my first and second floor (dual systems) and they lasted 20 years With minimal upkeep.

How far am I off in assuming those two Lennox's are 10 or 13 SEER?

My dad's golfing buddie up in Pa owned a home in NC by our place. He gives me a call last year. Lennox 18 SEER plus system had a communicating t-stat he had to have replaced out of warranty. Contractor wanted $1,600 to replace that tstat. I got it done for him at $900 at a "good friend deal" (that tstat was WAY more than half the cost of that bill by the way). Told him NEVER to buy a HVAC system that uses a proprietary communicating tstat ever again.

Lennox along with a total of 30 other "brands" are pretty much all the same IMO. The difference is good installation practices and the company installing it IMO. I finally replaced my no name brand that lasted 18 years only because the outdoor TXV went bad and I got a deal I couldn't pass up on an employee discount.

You name the equipment, I can give you a list of people who would never buy that brand again due to their bad experiences, including Lennox.

Ironically enough, you would be amazed at how many miles your HVAC system would have on it if it were a car.