Stuck-Up.... what do I do?

[hitekcountry]

I was at the dump today, pull the tarp off the trailer, open the tailgate, push the button and watch the dump bed raise all the way to the top, drive the truck forward tell I clear the load, check that everything is out, then I push the button to lower the bed – nothing happens! OK that’s odd, push the button again, still nothing.

Oh boy…. this is Not Good!!!! What do I do now? I’m at a dump more than 30 miles from my house, the dump trailer bed is stuck all the way up, and I really don’t think I can drive home like that!!

I have to say I know next to nothing about hydraulic systems much beyond the basics. But electrical I understand and the control is electrical, so I check out how it’s wired and come to the conclusion that the black wire must activate a solenoid that releases the hydraulic oil back into the reservoir. I check the black wire it’s slightly loose so I mess with it, try to tighten it by hand, it still doesn’t work

I also entertained thoughts of disconnecting the hydraulic line which I’m sure would have caused the bed to drop in a big hurry and at the same time spraying hydraulic oil all over the place. Not a great option.

Anyway I messed with it for what seemed like 20 minutes, probably wasn’t more than 4 or 5, and than all of a sudden it started working again.

When I got it home I first checked the trailer battery, checked out ok, 12v. Controls work as they should, bed raises and lowers.

I intend to clean all the wiring contact points, that’s what I suspect could be the problem, but I’m not sure.

I have some questions:

Is there some procedure for lowering the bed in this type of situation?

Is there a button or lever that will release the pressure and lower the bed?

What could be the probable causes?

Suggestions, ideas?

Pictures are; trailer after I got it home, working fine now that it’s home and pictures of the pump.

 

[Willl]

From what very little I've played with these type of pumps, no 'over ride' button/switch straight out-of-the-box.

Shouldn't be to hard to install a tee, valve and a short piece of hose for the 'next time'.

What happened this time ?, who knows ?
Very hard to tell now that it's working.

 

[Willl]

probable causes?

1, No power to solenoid valve.
2, No 'action' from solenoid valve even w/ power (burnt coil or stuck valve).

 

[hitekcountry]

1, No power to solenoid valve.
2, No 'action' from solenoid valve even w/ power (burnt coil or stuck valve).

Good point, I had a meter with me I could have check that.

Thanks

 

[EddieWalker]

First, be very careful about adding a valve. It would take a very expensive valve to handle that much preasure. If you put on one that isn't up to the preasure of your hydralics, it will blow apart.

When a hydralic cylinder is all the way extended and will not retract the way it's supposed to, and you have to lower it for whatever reason, the you need to find the safest fitting on the line. Be sure to stay out of the way of it's path.

Very slowly loosen the fitting. It wont take much, and you never take it all the way off. You just loosen it enough for fluid to leak out. The slower it leaks, the safer you will be. Then get out of the way and let it lower slowly as the fluid leaks out around the fitting.

Eddie

 

[hitekcountry]

EddieWalker

Thanks for the “how to”, I can tell you getting into the hydraulics was the last thing I wanted to do, but from what you say I guess if the controls had not started working again, I wouldn’t have had any other choice.

Leaving my dump trailer at the dump for sure was not an option.

 

[RonMar]

Well from your picture, it looks like a 1 wire solenoid that completes the coil circuit thru the motor/pump body. It dosn't appear to be a standalone valve, but a solenoid rod that pushes/pulls a valve mechanism located inside the pump body(perhaps pushes open the spring loaded hydraulic safety) to allow fluid to return to the resovoir. I am assuming you either have up and down buttons or a single switch with 2 positions? For up, motor runs and bed raises, for down, solenoid clicks and bed lowers by gravity. Is this correct?

NO click = no current or bad coil. Since it started working again and coils very rarely fix themselvs, I would guess something was limiting your current(bad switch or wire). I am guessing a volt meter on that single wire measured to ground should show +12volts when the "lower" switch is depressed. Check all the wiring and connections back thru the switch. If the coil was good, a small jumper wire to apply voltage directly to that solenoid terminal might get the bed down. If the solenoid goes, your into loosening a fitting as mentioned and dumping a bunch of fluid to get her closed. Not knowing exactly how the solenoid is configured(push or pull), it might also be possible to unscrew the coil assembly and apply pressure the same way the solenoid does to lower the bed. But that might also dump fluid out the port where the solenoid is screwed into. This would be something I would want to test and learn about in the yard and not at a dump 30 miles from home

Good Luck

 

[BTDT]

Can you contact the manufacturer of the pump and tell them what happened? It seems like on the Little Beaver tilt trailers we used to use, there was a bleed screw that you could loosen that bypassed the solenoid through internal machining that would allow the bed to come down in an emergency. I think some hydraulic manlifts also have this function (so you don't get trapped in bucket when it is up).

 

[hitekcountry]

RonMar

Yes the control has two buttons, the up button switches on the pump and pulls HF out of the reservoir and pushes it to the cylinder. There is only one hose in the system. The down button (pump off) allows the fluid to flow back into the reservoir and the bed drops by gravity.

I intend to check all the electrical connections I suspect contact corrosion, or as you put it a current limiting condition.

Yea I’d like to figure this out here at home and not have this happen again. Being out a ways and having your equipment crap out and strand you is not a good feeling.

BTDT

You know I think I’ll start with the place I bought the trailer, they sell a lot of these, if they don’t have the answers I’m sure they know who to call.

Thanks guys

 

[RichNJKubota]

I have never seen a trailer that does not have wiring problems and I've got a few choice words for the people that cut corners and wire trailers so that every connector is guaranteed to fail over time.
The problems stem from the crimp connectors they use on the wires. They are not water ans air tight and after some time they corrode and then you get things that don't work. The wire to connector connection is where the corrosion starts.
I can't count how many trailers I've had to fix the wiring on. If you get to it before the wiring itself gets too badly corroded then you only have to fix the connectors. But if you are not lucky then the corrosion works it's way up the wire from the connector and then you have to replace the wiring too.
The best fix is to take the connectors off the wires and solder new ones on. You must use solder as that keep moisture out. Then use heat shrink tubing to seal the wire/connector from moisture further. If you want to spend a little more money, get the heat shrink tubing that has glue in it. Sometimes I put a drop of silicon glue in the heat shrink tubing before I shrink it with the heat gun.

I always wonder how many accidents have been caused over the years by trailer brakes not working or lighting not working due to crimp connectors put on at the factory. These crimp connectors are the ones that you buy at the local auto parts store and use a hand crimper. The connector to wire connection is not water or airtight and corrosion is guaranteed to happen.
The crimps that are machine made (as in cars and tractors) are tight and will last for years even exposed to water. But even they fail after 10 or 20 years when exposed to the elements.

So my advice to you is to take a few hours of your time and replace every crimped connector on the trailer. Use a soldering gun and heat shrink tubing and you'll save yourself many frustrating hours of tracking down electrical gremlins in the years to come.

 

[hitekcountry]

I have never seen a trailer that does not have wiring problems and I've got a few choice words for the people that cut corners and wire trailers so that every connector is guaranteed to fail over time.
The problems stem from the crimp connectors they use on the wires. They are not water ans air tight and after some time they corrode and then you get things that don't work. The wire to connector connection is where the corrosion starts.
I can't count how many trailers I've had to fix the wiring on. If you get to it before the wiring itself gets too badly corroded then you only have to fix the connectors. But if you are not lucky then the corrosion works it's way up the wire from the connector and then you have to replace the wiring too.
The best fix is to take the connectors off the wires and solder new ones on. You must use solder as that keep moisture out. Then use heat shrink tubing to seal the wire/connector from moisture further. If you want to spend a little more money, get the heat shrink tubing that has glue in it. Sometimes I put a drop of silicon glue in the heat shrink tubing before I shrink it with the heat gun.

I always wonder how many accidents have been caused over the years by trailer brakes not working or lighting not working due to crimp connectors put on at the factory. These crimp connectors are the ones that you buy at the local auto parts store and use a hand crimper. The connector to wire connection is not water or airtight and corrosion is guaranteed to happen.
The crimps that are machine made (as in cars and tractors) are tight and will last for years even exposed to water. But even they fail after 10 or 20 years when exposed to the elements.

So my advice to you is to take a few hours of your time and replace every crimped connector on the trailer. Use a soldering gun and heat shrink tubing and you'll save yourself many frustrating hours of tracking down electrical gremlins in the years to come.

That’s interesting. Now that you mentioned it, it’s been no more than a week since I was told the right brake light wasn’t working. I’ve got plenty of other projects I’m dealing with, I don’t need another one right now, but I sure don’t need these problems. Yea I need to fix the wiring before I use that trailer again.

 

[JerryG]

Tee into the hoses on each side of the existing valve. Putting a hydraulic pressure rated ball valve in the middle of the new line. That way if it happens again, all you will have to do is pull the ball valve handle to let it down. Surplus Center Item Detail

 

[Bedlam]

Maybe old school but mostly cheap, I use solder on the joints, far better than a crimp conector , but more work.

 

[hill]

I'd prolly change the solenoid if it's available.

Until you get it fixed put a small ballpeen in the truck for rapping on that valve body and tapping on that solenoid.

 

[dqdave1]

You probabaly could have jumped a piece of wire from positive battery post directly to solienoid connection to bypass all crimped connections.
They also make waterproof crimp on connectors. They have silicone in them that is released when crimped.

 

[hitekcountry]

Today I called the trailer dealer and explained what happened and the guy said “probably the first thing you might want to take a look at is the switch”. That made me a little suspicious that maybe this is a common problem, so I asked him “have you had problems with that switch before?” He says “oh no we haven’t had problems with it, but we have seen it happen.” Then he proceeded to tell me how to take the switch apart. Gee he sure is familiar with that switch.

I put my trailer in the garage to work on it and the first thing I do is raise and lower the bed a number times and several times it failed to lower. Raising the bed was never a problem, lowering it was hit and miss. I was glad to see that happen because now I can track it down.

Then I put a meter on the wire to the return solenoid and every time I pushed the down button and the bed dropped properly I was seeing 12V on the wire and every time I pushed the button and the bed failed to drop I was seeing 0v. Clearly it’s a bad switch and not the solenoid. Also one of the times I pushed the down button and it failed to work, I took a screwdriver and shorted from the 12v terminal to the solenoid and it worked properly.

 

[hitekcountry]

Took the switch apart and cleaned the contacts and than put it back together, but it still isn’t working right yet. I’ll deal with it tomorrow.

 

[mboulais]

It is a single acting cylinder and relies on gravity to lower the dump bed. In my experience gravity can be a little unreliable. I'm not saying it's not electrical. It probably was electrical, course as a mechanical engineer I like blaming the electrical systems for any problems.

As far as a bypass valve, not a bad idea. Tee in the line and back to tank. Eddie is right, don't just pick up a valve at Home Despot and stick it on there. Your fittings need to be sch. 80 too.

Next time check gravity too.

 

[patrick_g]

In my experience gravity can be a little unreliable.

IF you find a situation where the law of gravity is being broken, do the right thing and call the Newtonic Police!

Pat

 

[Redbug]

I do not think you got all the contacts in the hand switch. I believe the button pads in the front of the switch may be your problem. Dirt and crud enters as the thumb button is pushed down and works its way underneith. Same thing happens on TV remotes, etc. Take the front casing off and the buttons out... use alcohol to clean the contacts. I have one of those remotes on my dump trailer, too.

Good post about what to do in a bed up position. I have wondered about it, also.