Stuck Cylinder Liners YM1700

[SailorBob]

I have everything I need now to put my tractor back togother but, I can't get the old cylinder liners out. I searched the forum and found a thread with someone with the same problem with a 1500 but, he never posted a resolution.

FYI, I did not split the tractor and have not removed the crank, etc. I don't really have a place to do it. I have attempted to make 2 different pullers. The first attemp was with angle iron with spacers over the block. I used a 9" bolt between the bottom and the top piece. (The spacers were definetly not blocking the liners nor was the bottom piece hitting anything either. ). The angle iron just bent when I starting tightening the bolt. ( i guess it was not thick enough. So, I took 2 pieces of 1/4" steel stock together. Same result. I am running out of ideas. I know some of you had done this. Please help!!!

It is frustrating to get this close and get stuck.

 

[rock2610D]

I had a similar issue. I used 1/2 inch steel and it bent too. I ended up using the 1/2 inch steel and welded a 1/2 inch piece (on edge) on top of that 1/2 inch piece of steel to make a "T". The hole is what causes the bend. So get the brace as close to the hole as possible.

Once I did that the liners just slipped out.

I will post a photo of my contraption tonight.

 

[mark777]

If you have access to a MIG welder, you can make a series of small, vertical welds which cause the liners to shrink after they cool down. Our machine shop does this often...and says most pull out by hand.

Mark

 

[SailorBob]

Rock,

That sounds like it should work. I would like to see the photo I don't have a welder though.

Thanks guys for your help.

Mark,

That is the second time I have heard the welding trick. The guy at the machine shop where I had the head done said the same thing. He did not say I needed a MIG welder though.

Looks like I now need a welder to use either solution. I wonder if the Admiral will go along with this one. I have been wanting one for a long time...I think I might make a trip to Harbor Freight to see what a cheapie welder might cost.

 

[MJPetersen]

Welding works very well to shrink parts such as bearing races and cylinder liners. It does not have to be a mig any welder will work. When the weld cools it contracts and draws the metal in. the result is a slip fit. Be careful that you do not burn through the liner, not difficult to do.

Mike

 

[kenmac]

Welding works very well to shrink parts such as bearing races and cylinder liners. It does not have to be a mig any welder will work. When the weld cools it contracts and draws the metal in. the result is a slip fit. Be careful that you do not burn through the liner, not difficult to do.

Mike

Would a propane( map gas ) torch get hot enough to produce the same results ??

Just an Idea. These can be had at local hardware ,WM stores

 

[MJPetersen]

It is not the heat, but the contraction of a weld that "shrinks" the liner. This is the well known "warp" factor in welding. You can make a 1/2 in. plate of steel curl like bacon by welding successive beads on one side.

Mike

 

[kenmac]

I have applied enough heat to stuck things to at least get them to move. A torch would be worth trying if he doesn't have a welder or can't weld. I agree that welding will curl metal .I was a welder for many years in my previous life

 

[rock2610D]

Sorry, I could not post photo last night. Liners do come out easy after you get the bending of puller issue figured out.

If I were to do it again I would use a 1 inch thick piece of steel, 2.5 inches wide and the right length to not hit block. Drill a 1/4' to 3/8" hole in middle of 1" thick steel and use althread (1/4" to 3/8") to pull liners.

I used a 1/2 inch thick piece of metal 6" by 6' for my top brace. Layed it flat on top of head bolts. Head bolts should have nuts on them to protect them. Wood tends to crush and not apply an even pull on liners.

No welding needed just a drill.

Note: I also ground a lip on both ends of the puller piece of metal. This lip allows the puller to slip ever so slightly up into the liner. It helps keep puller centered and will not slide one way or another making sure both sides of puller never contact block.

 

[SailorBob]

Sorry, I could not post photo last night. Liners do come out easy after you get the bending of puller issue figured out.

If I were to do it again I would use a 1 inch thick piece of steel, 2.5 inches wide and the right length to not hit block. Drill a 1/4' to 3/8" hole in middle of 1" thick steel and use althread (1/4" to 3/8") to pull liners.

I used a 1/2 inch thick piece of metal 6" by 6' for my top brace. Layed it flat on top of head bolts. Head bolts should have nuts on them to protect them. Wood tends to crush and not apply an even pull on liners.

No welding needed just a drill.

Note: I also ground a lip on both ends of the puller piece of metal. This lip allows the puller to slip ever so slightly up into the liner. It helps keep puller centered and will not slide one way or another making sure both sides of puller never contact block.

Thanks for your help. I f I understand you correctly with your first suggestion is to use a 1" think piece of stock at the top to sit on top of the head bolts and cut a corresponding piece for the bottom of the cylinder with a groove to allow it to slip slightly up into the cylinder. I suppose that I could use my angle grinder or Dremel tool to make the groove. I guess I am a little concerned about potentially bending the head bolts. The last contraption that I built i just used a stack of 4 1/4# peices of stock set them on top of the block next to the head bolts. I then placed the cross piece on top of those stacks and started tightening it. I guess I was hoping that once the liners break loose I would be able to grab them and pull them out.

The square piece at the top will not work on this tractor because it is a 2 cylinder and the middle head bolt on the port side is shorter than the others. (see pic)

I guess I will have to look for some 1" stock now that would be the cheapest option

OR

I found a 90 amp flux wire welder on sale at Harbor Freight for $118 (reg 199). I wonder if it would be sufficient to remove the liners.(I used to have a Lincoln AC/DC buzz box years ago when I owned a steel hull boat something always needed welding on that beast) and I think I could still run a few beads up the liner.

 

[rock2610D]

I used a 1/2" thick piece of plate steel on top of the head bolts, with a 5/8 inch hole to allow althread to go thru plate down to the piece I used to pull liners.

In your situation since you have one short head bolt I would get a plate that is approx the same dimensions at your head and bore 2 holes. Because of the longer span of plate I would use 1 inch there too.

Just so you know I was supprised at how easy the 1/2 inch stock bent. Once I got the "T" in place it did not bend and I was supprised at how EASY the liners came out.

Be advised I had to drill 2ea 5/8" holes in the lower piece, and router out the metal between two to make an oblong hole. This was so I could angle steel on althread bolt as I lowered it thru cylinder and once at bottem I just leveled out the steel and it hooked to bottom of liner.

 

[elad]

I have seen mechanics fill the cylinders with dry ice and let stand
for {I think} 30 minutes. The extreme cold caused the sleeve to shrink
and pull right out. Plug the bottom of cylinder with a snug fitting piece
of cardboard. Also filled new sleeve with dry ice before driving into
block. I know it has worked before, because ai witnessed it quite a
few times
elad

 

[SailorBob]

I have seen mechanics fill the cylinders with dry ice and let stand
for {I think} 30 minutes. The extreme cold caused the sleeve to shrink
and pull right out. Plug the bottom of cylinder with a snug fitting piece
of cardboard. Also filled new sleeve with dry ice before driving into
block. I know it has worked before, because ai witnessed it quite a
few times
elad

Now that sounds like the easiest and cheapest idea yet. I will try that this weekend..

Thanks

 

[Eddie]

On an old 8N Ford, I've seen my uncle put the new sleeves in the freezer for a couple of days before he'd install them. Then take them out of the freezer one at a time and install it. They would go in real easy that way.

 

[rock2610D]

Here is another method I have HEARD about. Spray cylinder liners with a fire extiguisher for a few seconds. It rapid cools liners and they pop in and out easily.

 

[SailorBob]

Here is another method I have HEARD about. Spray cylinder liners with a fire extiguisher for a few seconds. It rapid cools liners and they pop in and out easily.

I guess you would need a CO2 extinguisher for that but, it sounds like another good idea.

If you have put your new liners in where they hard to put in? I am wondering too about those o-rings. How are they kept in place when you put the liners back in? The freezer idea sound like a good one too.

 

[rock2610D]

Called my wife earlier today and she said UPS guy came today; so my new liners just came in. Will install this weekend. New head, pistons, and such also came in

O-rings on old liners are in liners. They fit in a groove kinda like rings for a piston.

Still wondering if I need to paint them like 336 manual states???

I will probably stick them in freezer over nite and use a high temp gasket material on upper lip and o-ring area prior to installation.

 

[SailorBob]

I am going to buy some dry ice today and try it tomorrow.

I have the same question as you about painting the liners. The manual that I have (YM195) is pretty close to the YM1700. It says to paint them with a water proof paint too but, I have not painted them yet. I would think that you would need some kind of metal primer and some high temp type of paint.

I too think I will put the liners in the freezer

 

[oldhippy]

I have done a lot of pulling in of sleeves and bearings. The freezer will help but dry ice will work a lot better. If you use dry ice be careful as you can freeze burn yourself when messing with dry ice or liquid nitrogen. It would also help to have a block of wood and hammer near as the sleeves can get cocked in hole and lock up. Some times a bump with hammer will make them go right in. If you use dry ice the sleeve should just drop in on its own. Lots of luck. big dan

 

[rock2610D]

My sleeves are in Put in freezer over night and this morning I put sealant on them and o-rings. They slid right in. Had a little too much sealant on first one and had to use old liner on top of new liner and hit with a hammer about 5 times and squeezed some sealant out the top and new liner was in place.

Pretty simple really. Chilling liners works great.