Loader Starting issues CT235

cjwyzard · Aug 30, 2017

Greetings all,

So I was running the CT235 and had stopped to adjust the blade. Set park brake got off running tractor. Got back on and forgot brake set. Tractor was at an idle and I stepped on the forward pedal and of course it stalled. I reset everything and tried to restart tractor. I could hear solenoid click but no turn over. I have followed a number of threads and have determined that the switch on the HST is working and in the neutral position. I have pulled all the fuses under the dash and checked that they were good with a multi-meter.

Next step was to see if tractor could/would start bypassing solenoid. With Brake locked, bypassed seat switch, broomstick holding clutch depressed, Transmission in neutral, switch turned to run position i jumpered between incoming positive feed and only stab connection on solenoid, tractor started.

Reattached seat switch and restarted tractor bypassing solenoid. Removed broomstick and jumped into seat. Released brake lock and tractor dies. Pressed on brake a little tractor stays running. Depress clutch tractor wants to stop. WIth transmission still in neutral depress go pedal tractor stops.

Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Conrad

winston1 · Aug 31, 2017

With the key in the on position mash the brake. Does the brake lights come on? They should. Not sure what all the switch on the brake pedal has to do with safety but might check it out. It is up the brake pedal under the dash.

Pto in neutral?

Welcome to the forum. :welcome:

cjwyzard · Aug 31, 2017

winston1 said:
With the key in the on position mash the brake. Does the brake lights come on? They should. Not sure what all the switch on the brake pedal has to do with safety but might check it out. It is up the brake pedal under the dash.

Pto in neutral?

Welcome to the forum. :welcome:

Thanks for the welcome. Yes I have played with both PTO levers and they appear to be in neutral. I should have explained that the brake appears to stick and the brake switch works. So with the brake switch if you depress the brake pedal just enough to engage the brake light the tractor stays running. If I pull the brake pedal back to turn off the brake lights the tractor stops. Thereby I figure the switch works.

Thanks,
Conrad

SSdoxie · Aug 31, 2017

cjwyzard said:
Greetings all,

So I was running the CT235 and had stopped to adjust the blade. Set park brake got off running tractor. Got back on and forgot brake set. Tractor was at an idle and I stepped on the forward pedal and of course it stalled. I reset everything and tried to restart tractor. I could hear solenoid click but no turn over. I have followed a number of threads and have determined that the switch on the HST is working and in the neutral position. I have pulled all the fuses under the dash and checked that they were good with a multi-meter.

Next step was to see if tractor could/would start bypassing solenoid. With Brake locked, bypassed seat switch, broomstick holding clutch depressed, Transmission in neutral, switch turned to run position i jumpered between incoming positive feed and only stab connection on solenoid, tractor started.

Reattached seat switch and restarted tractor bypassing solenoid. Removed broomstick and jumped into seat. Released brake lock and tractor dies. Pressed on brake a little tractor stays running. Depress clutch tractor wants to stop. WIth transmission still in neutral depress go pedal tractor stops.

Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Conrad

Not pertinent to your start/run problem but FYI: there is a storage lock hook on the clutch pedal to hold the clutch pedal depressed that can be used for times like this when trying to start engine while standing beside the tractor. Broomstick not required.

There are 2 Operator Presence logic system built into the controller. #1 for engine start - HST treadle pedal in neutral sending voltage back to controller, PTO off sending voltage back to controller, and seat switch depressed also sending voltage back to controller. All 3 of the switches get voltage in from the same fuse but each switch has individual feed back to controller. All 3 input feeds are required before the controller will send input to start relay to engage the starter. Logic #2 (after engine starts) - RPM sensors feeds into the controller to run the Tach but also changes the Safety switch logic. After running it ignores the HST pedal switch completely. It also ignores the PTO switch provided the seat switch in making contact. When the brake pedal in depressed/brakes locked the brake pedal switch sends signal to controller to ignore the seat switch and PTO switch so operator can leave the seat with engine running. Only exception is if tractor has mid-point PTO and that is engaged then engine dies even with brakes locked.
Logic 2 only functions after engine is running. You cannot by-pass the start logic by engaging the park brake.

In the last paragraph you said "Reattached seat switch and restarted tractor bypassing solenoid. Removed broomstick and jumped into seat. Released brake lock and tractor dies. Pressed on brake a little tractor stays running." This indicates a fault in seat switch circuit since you did not try starting it with the key. Try using the key to start with seat switch connected, if no start by-pass it with jumper wire and try again.
"Depress clutch tractor wants to stop." There is no switch associated with the clutch so I'm thinking either a wire is rubbing on the clutch linkage creating a short or you are shifting weight in the seat while depressing the clutch. Try repeating this with seat switch by-passed.
"WIth transmission still in neutral depress go pedal tractor stops." This switch should be ignored by the controller after engine is running, so again try with seat switch by-passed.
I have run into a few seat switches that fail unless operator weight is in very precise location on the seat, either one of the lock tabs have broken or popped loose placing the switch at an angle or the contact is not centering as it should. That is why, after very lengthy explanation, I suggest repeating all the above tests setting in the seat with switch by-passed.

cjwyzard · Aug 31, 2017

Thanks for all the suggestions Dennis. I had tested the seat switch with a multi-meter and with no weight in seat circuit is open. As soon as I place some pressure on the seat with my hand the circuit is closed as it should be. I then unplugged the sensor and put the bypass wire into the end of the plug and attempted to start tractor. No joy. With the Brake pedal held in the locked position and using no broomstick but the lever you mentioned to hold the clutch depressed (My new thing for the day

), started tractor bypassing solenoid.

Got into seat and released clutch, still running. Released park brake and still running. Note: (P)Light on dash goes off. Brake lights are still on. Pull brake pedal back to turn brake lights OFF tractor dies. Depress pedal until brake lights come on tractor stays running.

With tractor running I checked that the PTO switches were working. First, the rear one. Engaged PTO, jumped off tractor to see PTO turning, back on tractor disengaged PTO, off tractor PTO stopped turning. Now for the mid PTO. Even with seat bypassed and me in seat I cannot engage the mid PTO without tractor wanting to die.

Additional info. I disconnected the brake switch and put a jumper in there in case it is the switch. Still won't start without bypassing solenoid. Once running still can't move tractor without it dying when applying HST pedal.

So I decided to bypass the safety switch on the HST pedal. Still no joy. Started it bypassing solenoid, released clutch and able to drive forward and backward without tractor dieing. I'm guessing that means the HST safety switch is functioning.

Now I have tested the three safety circuits we have been talking about. Starting at the HST pedal remove jumper and tested that we are getting near 12v to ground from the positive lead of the two wire connection, Check. Reconnected HST safety switch.

Moved up to brake switch, near 12v to ground, Check. Reconnect brake switch.

Moved to seat switch tested first near switch, NO juice. Hmmmm. Moved to connection at back of seat. Tested for near 12v to ground from positive lead of two wires. Check. Reconnected length of wire that runs under seat. Tested near seat switch for 12v to ground. SUCCESS. Tried starting tractor with key. SUCCESS. I suspect that there may be a short happening with the length of wire under the seat. Going to replace wire and keep connections treated for oxidization.

Thanks,
Conrad