Starter problem, 354

[3RRL]

You could take the starter apart with 2 bolts I think. Expose the armature and turn the pinion gear with a screw driver or something to see if it will rotate the armature. Not 100% sure, but I think the Bendix gear or pinion gear is attached to the shaft via a key and slides in and out on the shaft. If the key is sheared, it should be replaced.

 

[Seasoned Carpentry]

Took the starter apart and it looked fine inside. No corrosion and pretty clean. Brushes are good, spring and gears perfect. I lubed it up and put it back together. The hardest part was getting the brushes pulled back so they'd slide over the armature.

On the bench it works and throws fine again. But when I removed the copper starter-solenoid strap, the solenoid wouldn't throw by itself. Tried, got some partials, but wouldn't do the job. So I've ordered a solenoid.

Thanks to all for your help!

 

[Seasoned Carpentry]

Mine looked just like your pic. If you take the two screws out of the plate at the gear end of the starter and remove the solenoid and the eccentric pin it pivots on, the gears and all will come out of its housing. I did not see any key. The shaft has gentle spiral threads so when the solenoid lever pushes the gear assembly toward the flywheel, the assembly rotates a quarter to a half turn. I lubed it all up and it was good as new.

 

[Ranch_Hand_Supp]

Sounds like you are getting close ..... good job.

YOU post like you have been into one of these starters now.

Ronald
Ranch Hand Supply

 

[rutty creek]

I have a 2002 df 254 w/ y385 engine. The starter would spin and partially engage the ring gear; I was afraid I wouldn't have a ring gear before too long so I needed to figure some things out, even went so far as to drill hole in housing to verify full drive gear push. After completely breaking down starter to little pieces I concluded that the problem was in the drive pinion (over running clutch) the short needle bearings in drive pinion would not cam over tight enough to grip smooth shaft of drive pinion,there was some minor debris in it and it's possible the bearings could not reach the end of their ramps but at this point I could no longer get it reassembled even if I just cleaned it up. Unable to find a drive pinion, I bought a new starter. My new starter is doing the same thing, but I'm pretty sure parts are available now. BAIXIN is the manuf of my drive pinion.

 

[Affordable]

We stock the starter drives for your starter,If you want to try and repair it

Tommy
Affordable Tractor Sales
979-865-4002

 

[Seasoned Carpentry]

Thank you rutty creek, Ronald, and Tommy.

I got another solenoid and put it in. The tractor started like a charm, so I figured I'd solved the problem. Went away for the weekend and came back Sunday evening. Of course I went to start Lady Li Ling right away and it was back to the same old. Starter spins with exuberance but no engagement. So those one way clutches do give out? When I had the starter out I worked the gear by hand. It would spin freely one way and catch securely the other. I couldn't make it spin by hand. One person suggested I hook the starter up on the bench and restrain the gear with a piece of wood to see if it slips. I'll give that a try.

 

[greg_g]

One person suggested I hook the starter up on the bench and restrain the gear with a piece of wood to see if it slips. I'll give that a try.

I suggested you try to restrain the pinion, but with a bench vice - not a piece of wood. I don't know if it was here or at CTOA though, as I see you're looking for answers in both.

Trying to restrain a possibly good pinion gear with a piece of wood sounds too dangerous to me. At best, the wood would just splinter - it obviously doesn't tensile strength comparable to ring gear teeth, nor does it represent a comparable torque load. Put the pinion gear in the vice and secure the starter housing so that it cannot rotate when voltage is applied. I put some stout bolts through the starter holes and braced them against the vice itself. A short stab of voltage should very quickly prove if there's any slippage. Also. When you have the starter on the bench again, inspect the fact of the pinion gear teeth. See if they show signs of incomplete engagement. The ones on my Y385 starters showed striking that clearly indicated less than 50% mating of the gear teeth.

But I doubt that's your problem. I recently found less than 8 volts at the starter post on my Y485. On those times when the starter grunts but doesn't turn the flywheel, I'm guessing there wasn't enough current there to properly engage the pinion with the ring gear - binding resulted. In your case, it sounds like the pinion gear is simply bouncing off the ring gear teeth. That's why my JM254s did.

The OE wiring on my TS354C is such that the key switch and starter post are connected by what appears to be 16 gauge wire. When the weather warms up enough here to work outside comfortably, I'm going to replace that wire with at least 12ga - ideally 10ga if/when I get my hands on some that's oil/fuel resistant. Hopefully getting more amps to the solenoid will help. No guarantees, but I won't know if I don't try.

If you're interested in following my progress, use the email address I've got in my profile. I'll keep you updated offline.

//greg//

 

[rutty creek]

Seasoned Carpentry
I note you are from northern vermont: I am from connecticut and this problem is made worse in cold weather ... the colder the temp, the worse the problem. I may be "going out on a limb" but the dissimilar metals in the construction of the drive gear and the expansion/contraction of those metals at different rates may be the factor. You may be able to get your starter to work on the vise in a heated area,,,however, I would like to suggest that you take a heat lamp and aim it at the starter body with it on the tractor for an hour or so and try starter again before removing starter. The potential for harm to you or starter in vise is big,,,lots of torque from starters. Good luck!!

 

[Seasoned Carpentry]

Greg, you did suggest restraining the pinion. It's just that I'm not too crazy about doing that! Using a hardwood stick was no problem, the pinion gear just rubbed against it and spun no matter how hard I pushed on it. While that may not introduce enough torque, it shows it doesn't slip easily. My tractor is in a heated garage/workshop all the time, so cold is not an issue here. Also I jump the starter directly with a screwdriver to make sure it's not the ignition wiring and I've added a jumper battery to the mix, to make sure it's not my battery. Nothing changes the tune.

Here's the starter apart:

I grab the spring clips that push the brushes in before pulling the armature this far out and place them on the bracket to the left, so the brushes won't be pushed all the way in:

There's a retaining plate held in place by two screws that needs to be undone before getting to the pinion gear assembly:

Here's the pinion gear assembly with the solenoid fork to show how it moves the assembly:

In order to replace the starter drive (pinion gear assembly), I need to get the bearing/retainer at the end of the shaft off. This I don't see how to do. Any ideas?