Starship News

[sd455dan]

Sure hope that thing is tier 4 final!

Heh Heh, Nope...
Methalox has not been regulated on rocket emissions like diesels have been. from Quora:

It does burn relatively clean, and has several other advantages using methane vs. kerosene as rocket fuel

Though not as good as hydrogen, methane engines can produce more specific impulse than kerosene. This means more delta-v for the mass of fuel and engine. Methane is also far easier to handle and store than hydrogen.
Methane takes up much less volume than hydrogen, so the tanks can be smaller and lighter. It can be chilled before launch, causing it to shrink even further.

Methane is much cleaner burning than kerosene, eliminating problems with carbon deposits causing dangerous hot spots and blockages and greatly reducing the need for overhaul before reuse.

Methane can be made anywhere in space that power and common raw materials are available—including the surface of Mars.
Right now on Earth, methane is plentiful and cheap in the form of natural gas. In the future it will be made cheaply from solar power, water, and air.

The boiling point of oxygen and methane are close enough you can easily prevent one freezing the other with a little insulation. That’s not the case with hydrogen (which will freeze oxygen) or kerosene (which will be frozen by it).
These problems can be addressed with other fuels, but at the cost of extra weight.

Here is a Good video on rocket exhaust, including SpaceX
starts at point where the fuels are compared

 

[MossRoad]

Let's try it again....

About 18 minutes to launch (fingers crossed)

 

[sd455dan]

Looks like this is It.

T40 seconds and ...................................Launch

 

[sd455dan]

Well it made it past Max Q and 39 Kilometer altitude
They should Learn a Lot.

SpaceX comments at some point.

 

[MossRoad]

Kaboom!

But it was more than they expected, so yay?

 

[EddieWalker]

Thanks for the link. I didn't listen to any of the sound. Was it just supposed to go up, spin around, then come back down?

 

[ArlyA]

Oh well, reported on NPR
-------------------------------------------

SpaceX's massive rocket Starship explodes 4 minutes after liftoff

The monster-sized, uncrewed spacecraft cleared the launch tower but failed to separate from its booster, spinning in the air before succumbing to a blast of flames.

 

[sd455dan]

Kaboom!

But it was more than they expected, so yay?

Yeah seems so. Was listening to the live coverage comments and one of the Camera Vans was hit with debri large enough to bend the A pillars and of course blow out the windows.

Hopefully Damage to the launch facility was minimal, some reports the water tanks took some hits

It will be Interesting to see why there was No stage separation, as of this post still no comment on whether they commanded the self destruct or forces tore the rocket apart after it started tumbling.

Debri has been an on going problem (Concrete spalling) but I thought they were moving to stainless shielding with internal water cooling to mitigate damage especially to the rockets engines since they lost what appeared to be around 6 engines. Just speculation. SpaceX has more ships in Q so it shouldn't be Long until a new launch is in the works.

 

[MossRoad]

Thanks for the link. I didn't listen to any of the sound. Was it just supposed to go up, spin around, then come back down?

From everything they said, they were very happy it cleared the launch pad, and anything else after that was bonus data.

I guess that's because they've never fired up all the engines at once before.

 

[sd455dan]

From everything they said, they were very happy it cleared the launch pad, and anything else after that was bonus data.

I guess that's because they've never fired up all the engines at once before.

Yeah somewhere North of 13000000 lb of thrust
Here is a screen shot
It looks to have excavated under the launch mount

 

[MossRoad]

Yikes!

 

[sd455dan]

Yeah somewhere North of 13000000 lb of thrust
Here is a screen shot
It looks to have excavated under the launch mount

After listening to the Angry Astronauts commentary, have to think there is a possibility that the Integrated rocket launch might have completed its mission if not for damage to the spacecraft caused by all of the excavation and flying debris.

They may find large pieces of concrete hundreds if not thousands of feet from the launch mount.

Before the next launch metal and water cooled steel trenches need to be installed to eliminate damage to the rocket before it even begins to move. There are Other things that they will fix or improve but, the launch mount base is going to be a good starting place.
There is no proof, but sure would not doubt they are able nail down damage caused by flying concrete as a cause of failing engines. No idea on failure of stage separation

 

[MossRoad]

See SpaceX Starship Launch Destroy Dodge Caravan Parked Near Pad

Watch the inaugural SpaceX launch of Starship and the Super Heavy Booster, including an up-close video near the pad where a van was pummeled by rocks.

www.motor1.com

 

[/pine]

Just read a report from the company that films the launches for SpaceX and it said that it looked like about a 25' deep crater under the pad...

 

[IXLR8]

The ever optimistic Elon Musk posted that the launch pad and Starship will be ready for another test launch in 6-8 weeks. They had already started to build a water cooled steel flame trench that didn't get installed before the first launch. BUT... no idea when the FAA will give clearance for the next launch, especially since the 'destruct' sequence took longer to initiate than it should have.

 

[sd455dan]

The ever optimistic Elon Musk posted that the launch pad and Starship will be ready for another test launch in 6-8 weeks. They had already started to build a water cooled steel flame trench that didn't get installed before the first launch. BUT... no idea when the FAA will give clearance for the next launch, especially since the 'destruct' sequence took longer to initiate than it should have.

Yeah from what has been online , The self destruct only blew holes in the sides of the rockets.
Still seems like the hole/hull depressurization finally led to the destruction. Making a more zipper like destruct shaped charge might work better. Overall If it proves out that the flying debris is what damaged the engines and flight control /APU hydraulics It speaks really well of the rockets.
They absolutely need to nail down the launch mount and harden the facility so that it is safe for the other launch facility components and also the integrated rocket itself.

If SpaceX gets the launch mount rebuilt with the improvements needed in a timely manner, Sure hope the FAA doesn't hamstring them for an extended period.

 

[ArlyA]

From looking at history, NASA launched and launched just to see them rocket blow up for years before they mastered it. Its not easy.

 

[IXLR8]

If SpaceX gets the launch mount rebuilt with the improvements needed in a timely manner, Sure hope the FAA doesn't hamstring them for an extended period.

Some of the speculation I have read is that Elon made the announcement he did about the timeline of being ready was to help prod the FAA into not dragging their feet approving the next launch.

I agree, if the debris is what damaged the engines/controls, then it is amazing that they didn't loose more engines/control. That appears to be one tough bird.

Hopefully the flame trench will solve the debris issues. I would love to find video/pics of what they are doing to the launch pad at them moment.

 

[5030]

I was very surprised when I read there was no impingement barrier or flame trench with water on the launch pad. Oversight or just stupidity?

 

[IXLR8]

I was very surprised when I read there was no impingement barrier or flame trench with water on the launch pad. Oversight or just stupidity?

Based on initial static tests they felt it was not needed for this launch. They felt it would be needed for future launches and that is why they were in the process of building the water cooled flame trench, to be installed before the next launch. Somewhere I saw a tweet from Musk indicating this, and he admitted they were obviously wrong.