Sometimes it's worth it to hire a land surveyor

[Jstpssng]

Yes.....but It is not likely that a corner 15' out of wack would create that problem, unless in a city environment.

As you can see, I was editing my post as you wrote this. Please note my edits above.

 

[Jstpssng]

My point being......why would the seller have paid for a survey?
I do understand why you would.

Another point; my observation over the years is that the less land somebody owns, the more apt they are to be picky about it.
Some of the biggest conflicts can arise over miniscule differences.

A surveyed property with well defined lines is more valuable than something which is "there."

 

[two_bit_score]

Yes.....but It is not likely that a corner 15' out of wack would create that problem, unless in a city environment.

It is in a city so yes, that is different than a 1,000 ac wooded tract. But even that would depend on how far it Is from the opposing corner. 15’ off over 200’ in the woods is one thing. Over 4,000’ its significant.

 

[two_bit_score]

Another point; my observation over the years is that the less land somebody owns, the more apt they are to be picky about it.
Some of the biggest conflicts can arise over miniscule differences.

A surveyed property with well defined lines is more valuable than something which is "there."

And a smaller parcel in a downtown area is sold by Sq. Feet.

In this particular situation it also cut into my Street frontage.

 

[Jstpssng]

And a smaller parcel in a downtown area is sold by Sq. Feet.

In this particular situation it also cut into my Street frontage.

We used to find problems just doing mortgage inspections with a cloth tape. In one case I remember a garage in a subdivision which was built off the property because they based their property on the abutters line, without realizing there was an unbuilt road between the two ownerships. In that case a look at the plat would have shown it... which is how I knew.

 

[two_bit_score]

We used to find problems just doing mortgage inspections with a cloth tape. In one case I remember a garage in a subdivision which was built off the property because they based their property on the abutters line, without realizing there was an unbuilt road between the two ownerships. In that case a look at the plat would have shown it... which is how I knew.

Great example.

I knew a real estate broker who poured a slab on a lot she didn’t own in a brand new subdivision because she wanted save the cost of a survey.

 

[Oaktree]

I think that whenever the politicians decide they want to assess the value of property, they should be required to get an unbiased survey done. It would get these issues discovered earlier and maybe reduce the frequency of them doing backdoor tax increases.

In my state, cities/towns are required to re-assess property every 10 years, so what you propose could get rather pricey. I'd imagine others do the same.
Of course, this is N.H. where we have no income or sales taxes, so property tax is the primary method of raising revenue. While no one (except when you're trying to sell) likes to see their property value go up, I think this system is more fair...everyone's paying taxes on the current value of the property, not what they might have paid for it 30 years ago while newcomers are paying a disproportionate amount.

 

[Jstpssng]

Great example.

I knew a real estate broker who poured a slab on a lot she didn’t own in a brand new subdivision because she wanted save the cost of a survey.

I believe that I mentioned earlier in this thread; a contractor down in Portland Maine built a million dollar home which was 11 inches closer to the property line than zoning ordinances allowed. The error wasn't discovered until the building was complete, and the buyer applied for a mortgage to pay off the construction loan. One of the abutters wouldn't sign off on a variance so they had to move it.

 

[MoKelly]

I believe that I mentioned earlier in this thread; a contractor down in Portland Maine built a million dollar home which was 11 inches closer to the property line than zoning ordinances allowed. The error wasn't discovered until the building was complete, and the buyer applied for a mortgage to pay off the construction loan. One of the abutters wouldn't sign off on a variance so they had to move it.

They had to move the house????

Holy cow.

Here they couldn’t move the house as we all have basements.

MoKelly

 

[Jstpssng]

They had to move the house????

Holy cow.

Here they couldn’t move the house as we all have basements.

MoKelly

As they did. I don't know what ever came out of it, but I hope that the GC had good insurance.

 

[dodge man]

There is a legal term, the exact name escapes me, where a mistake is so small and the consequences so large, you don’t have to correct the mistake. In the case of the house being 11 inches over a setback this might kick in. It might not also.

 

[fried1765]

They had to move the house????

Holy cow.

Here they couldn’t move the house as we all have basements.

MoKelly

Nearly all houses in Maine (and the Northeast), also have basements.

 

[Jstpssng]

There is a legal term, the exact name escapes me, where a mistake is so small and the consequences so large, you don’t have to correct the mistake. In the case of the house being 11 inches over a setback this might kick in. It might not also.

I don't believe that it did that time. It was new construction in a new subdivision, somebody messed up.

 

[Jstpssng]

In the event of a discrepancy, does the most current survey supersede any previous ones? If that’s the case, at what point does a survey marker expire? For instance, it was last surveyed 1 year ago, 5 years ago, 10 years ago, 20 years ago. I’m not trying to be sarcastic, I’m wondering if it’s impossible or extremely unlikely for modern surveys to be in-accurate because of GPS markers? Maybe the real estate agent is the right person to ask about survey info? I’m probably going to google this subject. It has me a bit confused.

It isn't the corners which change, it's the accuracy. If the corner of record is a drill hole in a granite rock, that will always be the case. It's when the monumentation is poor for whatever reason, or the deed is somewhat vague or doesn't agree with what the abutter's deed describes that exact points come into question. A good surveyor is familiar with the laws for each circumstance and applies them to determine property lines. 100 years ago though when work was done with a steel tape and staff compass land wasn't as valuable, the deed might be vague. Mine describes "by the land of, by the land of, by the land of, then down the town road to the POB.
I should have it surveyed but there are old fence lines on all sides, plus one of my abutter's lot was surveyed so there are pins on two corners and halfway up my back line. I tried to contact that same surveyor when I bought my land, but he had died in a car wreck.

One of the worst monuments I've ever seen was "Thence along a fence to where the old cow lies down in the afternoon." That's when a surveyor applies his science to the art of determining where the line should be. It's not at all uncommon for them to dig up bits of barbed wire, trying to fit it together.

 

[dodge man]

jstpssng has it correct, once monuments are set, they govern. The exception is when gross error or fraud is involved. The question is what is gross error. To maintain my license I have to take continuing education. The teacher gave an example of monuments that were off a couple thousand feet that held. These were section line monuments set by the original government surveys in the early 1900’s.

On the other hand there might be an extreme example where a monument doesn’t hold if off only an inch. Say the measurements don’t match by an inch to a monument but if you hold the monument that is off one inch it puts the Empire State Building over the line.

In my area, out of probably 50 realtors I know of one of them that think a survey is important. The rest don’t want anything that would mess up a closing. In some areas surveys are required, usually in larger metropolitan areas.

 

[Jstpssng]

^^^^
When I sold a houselot earlier this year a survey was one of the first things that the realtor asked about. It wouldn't have been a deal breaker yet did add to what he felt was the value of the property. The next thing he asked about was a signed copy of the septic inspection report. I may or may not have been able to get a bit more going through somebody else, yet that's why I listed with him.

OTOH I also wouldn't have bought the property last year without both of the above in hand.

 

[two_bit_score]

In the event of a discrepancy, does the most current survey supersede any previous ones? If that’s the case, at what point does a survey marker expire? For instance, it was last surveyed 1 year ago, 5 years ago, 10 years ago, 20 years ago. I’m not trying to be sarcastic, I’m wondering if it’s impossible or extremely unlikely for modern surveys to be in-accurate because of GPS markers? Maybe the real estate agent is the right person to ask about survey info? I’m probably going to google this subject. It has me a bit confused.

In our case the fence has been there at least 40 years and the corner of the fence has been recognized as the corner of the property for that long. The discrepancy arose, evidently, out of a typog error in a deed at one time and was copied over by buyers and sellers who didnt compare what was on the ground (fence) with what was in the deed records. The previous deed records referenced the fence corner as well as at least one prior survey. Then without reference to any reason for a change the last two deeds that referenced the particular corner placed it by description at a location 15 feet from the fence corner.

The owner of the property who ”gained” the 15 feet recognizes the fence as marking the corner and has agreed to convey his interest via a quit claim deed to me. Thus the fence corner is reestablished as the corner in deed records and by a survey.

I hope that clears it up for you.

I would urge caution when taking advice from a realtor, etc regarding surveying unless they are also a Registered public surveyor.

 

[Torvy]

Remember that in the US, most of this stuff is governed by state and/or local law. What is normal in one state would never happen in others.

The valuation in Texas is every 2 years, I think. My point was that it should be accurate if the state is going to up your valuation. Of course it would be easier if they just 'fixed' the rates. Then, natural increases in value would increase revenue.

NH has both sales and income taxes. Unlike most states, both of those taxes have significant limitations.

Which States Have the Lowest Sales Tax?

Five states in the United States including Alaska, Oregon, New Hampshire, Delaware, and Montana, do not levy a state sales tax.

www.investopedia.com

Fyi, there is really no such thing as a business or corporate tax. 100% of those are passed to consumers, employees and/or owners. Corporate income is double taxed as the Corp submits funds to the government and then the stockholders pay again when they get their money out. One of the few disadvantages of incorporation versus other business types.

 

[two_bit_score]

I think that whenever the politicians decide they want to assess the value of property, they should be required to get an unbiased survey done. It would get these issues discovered earlier and maybe reduce the frequency of them doing backdoor tax increases.

Remember that in the US, most of this stuff is governed by state and/or local law. What is normal in one state would never happen in others.

The valuation in Texas is every 2 years, I think. My point was that it should be accurate if the state is going to up your valuation. Of course it would be easier if they just 'fixed' the rates. Then, natural increases in value would increase revenue.

NH has both sales and income taxes. Unlike most states, both of those taxes have significant limitations.

Which States Have the Lowest Sales Tax?

Five states in the United States including Alaska, Oregon, New Hampshire, Delaware, and Montana, do not levy a state sales tax.

www.investopedia.com

Fyi, there is really no such thing as a business or corporate tax. 100% of those are passed to consumers, employees and/or owners. Corporate income is double taxed as the Corp submits funds to the government and then the stockholders pay again when they get their money out. One of the few disadvantages of incorporation versus other business types.

I’m confused. You seem to be using appraisal values, surveys and tax values interchangeably. They are not all the same.

 

[fried1765]

In our case the fence has been there at least 40 years and the corner of the fence has been recognized as the corner of the property for that long. The discrepancy arose, evidently, out of a typog error in a deed at one time and was copied over by buyers and sellers who didnt compare what was on the ground (fence) with what was in the deed records. The previous deed records referenced the fence corner as well as at least one prior survey. Then without reference to any reason for a change the last two deeds that referenced the particular corner placed it by description at a location 15 feet from the fence corner.

The owner of the property who ”gained” the 15 feet recognizes the fence as marking the corner and has agreed to convey his interest via a quit claim deed to me. Thus the fence corner is reestablished as the corner in deed records and by a survey.

I hope that clears it up for you.

I would urge caution when taking advice from a realtor, etc regarding surveying unless they are also a Registered public surveyor.

Good point!
I walked the in place acreage boundaries with my Canadian realtor.
Boundary markers were all in, except that there was a 99' strip along one side that I later learned belonged to someone else.
Boundary lines were exactly parallel, so the difference was not readily noticed from markers on the ground.
Luckily I did not build too close.