Sometimes it's worth it to hire a land surveyor

[BackRoad]

The land we bought 2 years ago was listed by the owner as 52 acres, which they had owned since the mid '80s.

Best I could get using Google Earth was maybe 35 acres.

And of course, we made our purchase offer contingent on completion of a current survey...

It turns out the owners had been paying "52 acres worth" of taxes on 34.5 acres of actual land...for over 30 years...

 

[Jstpssng]

The land we bought 2 years ago was listed by the owner as 52 acres, which they had owned since the mid '80s.

Best I could get using Google Earth was maybe 35 acres.

And of course, we made our purchase offer contingent on completion of a current survey...

It turns out the owners had been paying "52 acres worth" of taxes on 34.5 acres of actual land...for over 30 years...

That's not uncommon, although one of the more extreme cases. A lot of old deeds were "more or less"; usually within 10%.
There's an old farm two towns down which was originally around 500 acres; the owner split it up years ago and sold (6) 100 acre lots from it. Land was cheap though so nobody checked.

 

[sandman2234]

My Dad purchased 63 acres which has grown to over 71 acres on the tax rolls. The highway splits off a small corner of the property and the corner is listed as part of his deed. The county recently sold that corner for back taxes, and Daddy saw some activity over there, so wandered over to see what they were doing. Once he determined that they were fixing to start clearing it for a house, he advised them that they might want to wait until the courthouse opened back up on Monday, unless they wanted to pay top dollar for every tree, bush, or blade of grass. The county reversed the sale...
David from jax

 

[two_bit_score]

In Texa

The land we bought 2 years ago was listed by the owner as 52 acres, which they had owned since the mid '80s.

Best I could get using Google Earth was maybe 35 acres.

And of course, we made our purchase offer contingent on completion of a current survey...

It turns out the owners had been paying "52 acres worth" of taxes on 34.5 acres of actual land...for over 30 years...

In Texas they could likely go back 5 years to correct those property taxes.

 

[two_bit_score]

The land we bought 2 years ago was listed by the owner as 52 acres, which they had owned since the mid '80s.

Best I could get using Google Earth was maybe 35 acres.

And of course, we made our purchase offer contingent on completion of a current survey...

It turns out the owners had been paying "52 acres worth" of taxes on 34.5 acres of actual land...for over 30 years...

Which is why I always recommend a new survey with the contract contingent on the survey. I have had cases where it went both ways. Usually if the new survey is short a bit and the buyer is ok with what they see on the ground they are open to keeping the price the same. But if it’s contingent on the survey and the contract is written properly they get it for the per acre price.

 

[Torvy]

In Texa

In Texas they could likely go back 5 years to correct those property taxes.

I think that whenever the politicians decide they want to assess the value of property, they should be required to get an unbiased survey done. It would get these issues discovered earlier and maybe reduce the frequency of them doing backdoor tax increases.

 

[5030]

Everybody can tell you where your lines are; your neighbor, the previous owner, the realtor; yet if you aren't proficient at reading deeds, a good surveyor is the best person to talk to.

In this state, only a registered survey is legally binding in any property dispute. Just had a 152 acre piece surveyed and staked and I went back and drove steel Tee posts at the stake locations. Was it cheap, no but it eliminates any disputes with adjacent land owners.

 

[fried1765]

In this state, only a registered survey is legally binding in any property dispute. Just had a 152 acre piece surveyed and staked and I went back and drove steel Tee posts at the stake locations. Was it cheap, no but it eliminates any disputes with adjacent land owners.

Of course you do realize that your steel T-posts are referred to as "witness markers", and are not recognized as legal boundary markers.
If you had your surveyor set concrete bounds, they would be legal boundary markers, and another survey might not be necessary when the stakes rot away.

 

[dodge man]

Surveyors often call them “stakes” but for property boundaries most surveyors use rebar or pipe or some other metal rod. Some states require a cap on top with the surveyors number on it.

T posts near the surveyor rod is not a bad idea but has problems. If too close it makes it hard to find the surveyors rod with a metal detector. If you set the T post 6” or a little more away that helps. The best thing is those flat about 6 inch wide fiberglass Orange posts like utility companies use. You can get them printed with a label that says “SURVEY MARKER NEARBY, DO NOT DISTURB”.

 

[fried1765]

Surveyors often call them “stakes” but for property boundaries most surveyors use rebar or pipe or some other metal rod. Some states require a cap on top with the surveyors number on it.

T posts near the surveyor rod is not a bad idea but has problems. If too close it makes it hard to find the surveyors rod with a metal detector. If you set the T post 6” or a little more away that helps. The best thing is those flat about 6 inch wide fiberglass Orange posts like utility companies use. You can get them printed with a label that says “SURVEY MARKER NEARBY, DO NOT DISTURB”.

"CB's" ......concrete bounds are used extensively in much of NE.
Pieces of rebar with surveyor number caps are used in many other areas.

 

[Jstpssng]

My brother is a retired surveyor and even he has had problems. He dug out around his pin (don't ask me how, without disturbing it) and poured concrete around it. Then his neighbor came in with an excavator and dug it up. Another good thing to do is to witness the monument to three trees, or drill holes in as many rocks; then take an exact measurement from each. It won't stand up in a court of law unless it was done by your surveyor; yet it will give you something to us if the monument is destroyed. (I believe that there are laws against tampering with survey monuments, but who's going to enforce it?)

 

[fried1765]

My brother is a retired surveyor and even he has had problems. He dug out around his pin (don't ask me how, without disturbing it) and poured concrete around it. Then his neighbor came in with an excavator and dug it up. Another good thing to do is to witness the monument to three trees, or drill holes in as many rocks; then take an exact measurement from each. It won't stand up in a court of law unless it was done by your surveyor; yet it will give you something to us if the monument is destroyed. (I believe that there are laws against tampering with survey monuments, but who's going to enforce it?)

Use string between stakes in a X pattern across the centerline of the pin, then removing the string to dig, then replacing the string, to re-establish exact point, prior to pouring concrete around pin.

 

[Jstpssng]

Use string between stakes in a X pattern across the centerline of the pin, then removing the string to dig, then replacing the string, to re-establish exact point, prior to pouring concrete around pin.

That may be what he did. He was in Arizona at the time. Whatever he did wasn't good enough.

 

[5030]

hasn't been an issue with our ground and don't see it being an issue. We have the corner markers in the ground set by the surveyor and his line stakes too.

 

[two_bit_score]

hasn't been an issue with our ground and don't see it being an issue. We have the corner markers in the ground set by the surveyor and his line stakes too.

I am in the process of buying a parcel right now. There is a discrepancy in deeds on one corner. Appears to be a typo per my surveyor. All deeds prior to the last one are in agreement with what is on the ground and under fence.

But, the current owner and the adjacent owner used the deed language from the previous deed with the mistake and neither resurveyed when they bought.

This typo put one corner 15 feet over. Not a huge amount but it’s also not a huge parcel.

The adjacent owner is agreeing to cooperate in rectifying the discrepancy by giving me a quit claim deed to the ‘disputed’ area. The title company says they will accept this and include it under my title coverage.

Had either of these owners had the property they were buying surveyed this would have showed up and been rectified.

Had I not surveyed and found it the error would have continued to to be perpetuated. As long as the fence remained in place it may have been a simple fix, until some buyer, seller or owner decided it should be a problem.

 

[fried1765]

I am in the process of buying a parcel right now. There is a discrepancy in deeds on one corner. Appears to be a typo per my surveyor. All deeds prior to the last one are in agreement with what is on the ground and under fence.

But, the current owner and the adjacent owner used the deed language from the previous deed with the mistake and neither resurveyed when they bought.

This typo put one corner 15 feet over. Not a huge amount but it’s also not a huge parcel.

The adjacent owner is agreeing to cooperate in rectifying the discrepancy by giving me a quit claim deed to the ‘disputed’ area. The title company says they will accept this and include it under my title coverage.

Had either of these owners had the property they were buying surveyed this would have showed up and been rectified.

Had I not surveyed and found it the error would have continued to to be perpetuated. As long as the fence remained in place it may have been a simple fix, until some buyer, seller or owner decided it should be a problem.

Thorough surveys cost money......lots of money!

 

[two_bit_score]

Thorough surveys cost money......lots of money!

I’ve used this same surveyor for over 30 years. He’s not getting cheaper but money spent up front is worth twice that when avoiding a problem.

Yes, I could have ignored this discrepancy but I would not be able to build close to that area and had I done so it would be a potential problem at some point.

.

 

[Jstpssng]

Thorough surveys cost money......lots of money!

So does building on somebody else's property.

(EDIT)Considering how many nightmares I've seen trying to translate deeds which have been copied over, with all of the exceptions, reserves, and out parcels tacked onto the end; as well as typo errors and omissions (such as the one which prompted me to start this thread) a survey and updated deed description can enhance the value going forward.

 

[fried1765]

So does building on somebody else's property.

Yes.....but It is not likely that a corner 15' out of wack would create that problem, unless in a city environment.

 

[fried1765]

I’ve used this same surveyor for over 30 years. He’s not getting cheaper but money spent up front is worth twice that when avoiding a problem.

Yes, I could have ignored this discrepancy but I would not be able to build close to that area and had I done so it would be a potential problem at some point.

.

My point being......why would the seller have paid for a survey?
I do understand why you would.