Some real Trac-tors...

PineRidge · Dec 4, 2003

I find it most interesting that the Japanese find a way to distribute weight while still maintaining traction. While here in the US we are busy loading our tires with fluids or adding weight to the axles. Do you suppose they know something that we don't?

GOOD pictures Henro!

AndyMA · Dec 4, 2003

( I find it most interesting that the Japanese find a way to distribute weight while still maintaining traction. While here in the US we are busy loading our tires with fluids or adding weight to the axles. Do you suppose they know something that we don't?

I'm not sure they know anything we don't know. I think it's because there using their tractors under different conditions. We tend to load and add weight to counter front end loader weight, where in most of the pictures of Japenese tractors I see, they are dragging implements. Many time under very muddy conditions.

Andy

GOOD pictures Henro! )

JDGREEN4ME · Dec 4, 2003

Cool looking Trac-tors /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

AndyM · Dec 5, 2003

Bill,
Thanks for sharing all of your pictures from "Tractor Tour 2003"

(I'm sure your wife didn't all it that!) /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

milkman · Dec 9, 2003

Thanks for the pics. I could use a cigarette now!!!

Robert_in_NY · Dec 9, 2003

Tracks have advantages and disadvantages. Many US and Canadian farmers have track setups they can bolt onto their combines and tractors if they run into a wet harvest. The advantage of tracks is the flotation and traction which means less compaction. Disadvantage is going over bumps and such as the machine will climb well but for the most part is a fun ride when it tips to the other side of the bump (anyone who has operated a crawler will understand what I mean). The other disadvantage is that in soft ground the tracks will tear up the ground if you turn to sharply. Another disadvantage is cleaning the tracks after you have been in the mud (especially on these large tractors).

Tires have advantages and disadvatages that most people already know so there is no sense repeating.

Now for how these tracks work, most bolt onto the hub and are easily changed to tires if need be. Just north of me there is a lot of farms having fun getting their corn in. A few of them bolted their tracks onto their combines to make it thru the harvest. You can order JD combines with tracks now if you want and you can get tracks for any tractor or harvester thru aftermarket companies. So far most farmers prefer the Case-IH Quad Trak over the two track setups from Cat and JD because they don't tear things up as bad and handle ditches and bumps much better while giving you the same advantage of the two track setups. Only disadvantage is you have 4 track assemblies to clean up instead of two, as well as more parts to wear.

CMunger · Dec 11, 2003

As far as being more costly to maintain, their ALOT more expensive to maintain. You not only have twice the amount of track drive on the ground, you have twice the drive train on the tractor, and I think the purchase price is higher also. I think these are tracks that, Case/IH purchase from a company in Hungry. And don't forget on the other two track units you get a 3-point with draft, and a PTO. Before Case/IH was sold it had track systems in R&D to be used on the Magnums, but was selved in light of the sale of the company to Fiat. I am not sure but I think it may have been a Quad type system also, like the Steiger/Case/IH
Chuck M.

Robert_in_NY · Dec 15, 2003

There is a rumor about a MX based quad trak. It is an articulated machine like the STX but still no pictures. The older CIH company had the MUT prototype which came out about the same time the original Quad Trak prototype came out. One was produced, the other was not. The 2wd tractors create problems for 4 track setups, one is turning. The front tracks would hit the tractor with a conventional turning system which is why the newer MX that is rumored to be around is articulated like the old International 6388.

There have been rumors of C-IH coming out with a articulated tractor for a while that was not a STX. Some thought it might be a variant of the NH TV140/145. Others thought it might be a reincarnation of the old International Anteaters. Eitherway, it is nice to see that C-IH is trying different things still and hopefully someone will luck out and get a picture.

Robert_in_NY · Dec 15, 2003

Finally found a picture of some of the aftermarket tracks available for combines. This picture was taken by a friend of mine who runs www.toytractorshow.com and the combine belongs to Steins farm from Caledonia, NY. To see more pictures of Steins farm and other farms from the Churchville area go to http://www.homestead.com/churchvillefarms/index.html

pekabu · Dec 16, 2003

Cool pictures. New to tractors, but been around Snow Grooming equipment. It's not unusual for clubs to put track kits on Geo's and pull drags around. Mt Major Snowmobile club

Robert_in_NY · Dec 16, 2003

That is true, I just couldn't find any of the pictures I had of the Ford Snow Groomers. The track setups for snow groomers is impressive to watch and even better to see on a Blue tractor

pekabu · Dec 16, 2003

NH 6 Cyl
NH 4Cyl

Robert_in_NY · Dec 16, 2003

Thanks for that link, I see they also make TC45D groomers.

MDNick · Dec 17, 2003

Steering is accomplished by means of the tractor articulating against the rear drag.

The groomer steers just as easily in forward or reverse, whether on trail, in deep snow, up snowbanks, etc...

The tractor steering wheel is still used to steer the unit. The original tractor steering system has been modified for high capacity operation. Hydraulic flow of up to 20 gallons per minute on TS series, 28 gallons per minute on TM series, and a special load sensing steering orbit allow for smooth, fast steering action. Steering action responds and feels just like conventional automotive steering. Even an inexperienced operator is comfortable with the steering almost immediately. There is no need to use the tractor brakes when steering.


Interesting steering. I wondered how they did that. Seems like you have to have the drag on and dragging at all times. More conventional purpose built snow groomers work like a bulldozer, with independent track control. Knowing next to nothing about snow grooming, it seems like the ag tractor style would be a pain, but it's about the only way using a tractor and a set of continuous tracks. Unless it were to be done exclusively with independent breaking, and I seriously doubt the breaks/differential would stand that for long.

Nick

pekabu · Dec 17, 2003

Exactly. They use a ram steer setup for steering. I haven't driven one but I understand in a tight slow situation they don't work that well. Some of the smaller groomers by Bombardier (BR110) used a ram steer setup. There are a few tractors around New Hampshire setup like this. Mostly Massey Fergusons though. Biggest reason I have heard of is local dealer. Bombardier for us is handled out of Quebec, 5hours away. Piston Bulley is out of Maine somewhere. Tuckers out of Northern VT.

I have seen two track setups, the one above where they keep a large diamater "Wheel" in the back, and another where its the same size all around. The Larger setup is suppose to be better because you run in lower gears. They can be switched back to normal use with a few hours work, but I don't know if any club actually does it.

One of the reasons our club is not as interested in them is there is only one seat. Hard to train with.

MDNick · Dec 17, 2003

The Bombardier (I think) I studied up close was in the Swiss Alps. Pretty slick machine. Something like 36" wide tracks. Thing that threw me for a while was the winch. On a 360 pivoting arm in the middle of the machine. For those that don't know, the winch is for tieing off to a fixed solid object at the top of the mountain, then you can work on slopes WAY to steep to stay on otherwise. Even a low slung crawler with 36" wide tracks. I can understand the training necessity. I'd need trained in depends use.

Nick

longway5 · Dec 18, 2003

I went for a ride in a Bombardier BR 180 the other night. Thats a nice machine. The tracks were controlled by two little joysticks on the operator's left armrest, the front blade with a joystick on the right, and all sorts of other buttons and levers for the tiller and track setter. This groomer is used for xc trails, and I can tell you it is much nicer to operate than a snowmobile and drag. There is just something about being able to drive around in lots of snow, up and down hills, turning on a dime, and not worry too much about getting stuck.

pekabu · Dec 18, 2003

Wow. They have the MP model. The steering sticks on the left arm is a real sweet setup. Ours has the two sticks in between your legs. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif It works but there is no support for your arm. Those 8 way front blades are are something else to control when your trucking down the trail at 7mph. It is a beautiful sight though to have the blade down and see the snow roll over as your going. One little twitch with your hand though and your cutting a new trail! /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

longway5 · Dec 18, 2003

I was real impressed with it. I guess its only on its second year up at the touring center. It replaced an older BR 160, and I was told that since no one actually spec'd the new one out, the guys who set it up added about all the options except for the sunroof. That 8 way blade was impressive with all the control and visibilty for using it. Since they were expecting rain the following night, we actually did some odd things to parts of the trail, such as where they know standing water would collect, we scraped all the snow off the trail and pushed it to the far side of the wet area to save it. The ability of the snowcat to spin around on the trail is what impressed me the most. I'd love to operate one.

Taylortractornut · Dec 19, 2003

I was looking in there scrap book about the steering and saw the drag's steering cylinders. I think they use the articulation to keep from damaging the ground before the drag goes over it so there wont be soft spots in the compacted trail. I think you could use thesteering brakes like you do on a pete moss trac conversion. Also in the scrap book section it shows the tractor used without the drag running the tracks and a boom mower. I believe the thing uses the brakes mostly but the drags steering would also help if it was in a deep soft snow by wiggling like a scraper does to get loose from a soft spot.