SOLVED: FEL not curling down properly

/ SOLVED: FEL not curling down properly #1  

oakhilltop

Bronze Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2009
Messages
58
Location
New Hampshire
Tractor
Massey Ferguson 1E.25
I had previously posted this in another forum and it was suggested that I post this in Hydraulics.

I have a JD 2305 with a 200CX front end loader. Recently, when I attempt to curl the bucket down to dump a load, the FEL curls upwards. I can get it to curl down if I do not push the joystick fully to the right. But it goes much slower and if I push it too far it curls upward and I have to start over. Does anyone know what the cause of this could be? My guess is that there is some vale that controls which hose the fluid goes to and that valve is deteriorating. The tractor and FEL were purchased in 2009 and has the optional valve that allows switching between the FEL and the mowing deck. I have not used that valve for a few years because I've been mowing with another piece of equipment.

A responder in the other thread asked if the FEL has regen on curl/dump and I don't know the answer to that. I do not know what regen is. My apologies.
 
/ SOLVED: FEL not curling down properly #2  
I read this when you posted, but couldn't think of what might do this. Now reading it, I'm wondering if the linkage might be loose
 
/ SOLVED: FEL not curling down properly
  • Thread Starter
#3  
Thanks for the reply. Are you referring to the linkage on the FEL? I have been wondering if it is the FEL or the controls on the tractor. I will be putting the snowblower on in a couple of weeks (or sooner). The chute rotation is controlled by the same hydraulic lines, so I will see if the chute rotates properly.
 
/ SOLVED: FEL not curling down properly #4  
I'm referring to the linkage. I thought maybe it could be the cab on the opposite end of the spool valve could be loose, but that usually doesn't allow the valve to center to neutral causing a particular circuit to drift.
 
/ SOLVED: FEL not curling down properly #5  
I agree with tractor tech to check linkage between the joystick and directional valve. Nothing in the valve itself should cause that movement problem
 
/ SOLVED: FEL not curling down properly
  • Thread Starter
#6  
I do think that it is the linkage. It worked good enough for the snowblower chute this winter. I took off the snowblower today and hooked up the JD CX200 FEL. The bucket is now stuck in the curled down position and will not curl at all. The bucket does go up and down. I have a valve that allows the use of the mowing deck when the FEL is on. The joystick movements that curl the FEL raise and lower the mowing deck. I set the valve in the mower position and the joystick does raise and lower the brackets for the mowing deck. So, I don't think that my current problem is the linkage even though it needs adjustment.

I disconnected and re-connected the hydraulic lines, but that didn't help. The loader was working when I took it off at the start of the winter.

I don't know where to go from here. Any ideas would be appreciated.
 
/ SOLVED: FEL not curling down properly #7  
Did you get the lines crossed when reinstalling the loader after removing the blower?
 
/ SOLVED: FEL not curling down properly
  • Thread Starter
#8  
I just checked and they appear to be correct. I did have to use a relief tool to get a couple of the hoses to go on.
 
/ SOLVED: FEL not curling down properly #9  
Try changing / swapping the two lines for curl dump to see if problem still persists.
 
/ SOLVED: FEL not curling down properly #10  
Did you try turning it off and then turning it back on again?
 
/ SOLVED: FEL not curling down properly
  • Thread Starter
#11  
I noticed that the poppet ( I think that's the correct name) on one or two of the male couplers from the FEL were not protruding from the coupler. I went to the dealer and got 4 of the male couplers and installed them. That seems to have fixed the problem that started this thread as well as the bucket being stuck in the curled down position,

I also cleaned all of the connections with WD40. Thanks for the replies and help.
 
/ SOLVED: FEL not curling down properly #12  
Glad you are curling again.

We had a curling problem on our 1983 JD 310B backhoe last week after replacing all 8 hoses. Two curling hoses were reversed. :)

Fluid and hoses where 2x+ the last time I purchased. :(
 
/ SOLVED: FEL not curling down properly
  • Thread Starter
#13  
Looks like I spoke too soon :( We did about an hour of yard cleanup and everything worked great. Then, for no reason, the bucket did not lower normally. It had to be coaxed down. GRRRR! The curl works still, and it raises normally, but lowering has issues. I'm going to re-check the fittings and connections and look for leaks when I get a chance.

I hope that it isn't a female coupler, because the tractor has a diverter to allow the mowing deck to be used when the FEL is on. And it is wicked congested around the female connectors. I don't want to tackle that one.
 
/ SOLVED: FEL not curling down properly #14  
I think you're on the right track with your logic. I understand how with hydraulics sometimes to change one thing you have to move 10 things. 🙂
 
/ SOLVED: FEL not curling down properly
  • Thread Starter
#15  
I noticed that the poppet on some of the male couplers were not normal. I replaced all 4 of them on the hoses from the FEL. Everything worked .... for awhile. We did some yard work for almost an hour and then the bucket would not lower normally. I have to gently push the joystick forward to get it to go down. Curling works now. If I push the joystick too far forward then it stays in the same up/down position.

I guessed that perhaps one of the four fittings that I got was bad. So, I swapped the fittings from the curling hoses with those on the raise/lower hoses. The problem stayed with raising/lowering the bucket, although it is somewhat better. I think that confirms that the 4 pieces I got are good.

I'm thinking that the problem is with the joystick or the control valve. I cannot, easily, get the access cover to the joystick off and am not sure what I would do if I get it off.

I may have to call the dealer.
 
/ SOLVED: FEL not curling down properly #16  
You may have something foreign in a QD that is blocking or restricting the fluid flow. You mention it's intermittent, so the hydraulic fluid flow may be moving it around so it works at times, and then doesn't work other times.

Is your setup configured to allow easy QD swap between the pair of ports for the loader and the pair of QD ports for the bucket?

Are you able to disassemble the suspect QDs on the (4) individual QDs used at the demarcation for bucket control to visually look for something foreign inside the fitting? They're generally pretty basic and straight forward. Check the male sides first, look for foreign material in each of the orifaces.


Apologies if the following is already well known by you. It sounds complicated written out, but it's pretty straightforward when the objective is realized.

The goal is to separate the components in your configuration which are proven to be working normal, and the components on the suspect list.

So if one function appears to be working normal...say, the Loader Arm control (the loader arms go up and down normal), then all of the components in that lineup are OK to be used for testing the components supporting the function not working...say Bucket Control.

There is a loader disconnect point, call it the demarcation point, typically with (4) QD ports on your tractor, which connect with (4) associated QD lines on your loader to facilitate easy separation of hydraulics for removal of the loader.

They operate in pairs and the flow in each pair of QDs is typically activated by separate hydraulic valves using the joystick.

One valve and set of QDs operate the loader arms. Another valve and set of QDs operate the bucket.

This is where it gets specific to each unique hardware setup: my Kubota facilitates easy rolling of the pairs at the demarcation. Yours may not.

Your description seems to be an intermittent problem affecting the bucket control. So likely safe to say the valve and the 2 individual QDs on each side of the demarcation point (total of 4) supporting the loader arm operation are working normal and can be used to isolate the problem with the bucket control.

The objective, if your QD configuration allows, is to use the good working components such as from the loader arm to isolate the issue with bucket control by simply rolling each pair of QDs at the demarcation. (Example is at the demarcation point, plug the pair of QDs from the loader side which are used for loader control - > into the QDs on the tractor side used for controlling the bucket).

Use what is working to test and identify what is not - using thoughtful logic to swap known good components in the line-up (ideally only one at a time, to minimize variables) with suspect components to finally isolate the one(s) at fault.

Always before starting, make sure you physically tag each QD component in your original configuration so you can always return it to normal...colored tiewraps or tiewraps and labels will work...and take "before" photos just in case. Write it out on paper if needed, plus the swap plan.

If your male/female QD use is consistent and allows:
To prove if your bucket valve at the joystick is good - ideally at the demarcation point, you would simply reconnect your pair of QDs operating the loader arm into the pair of QDs on the tractor side which operate the bucket, and do the same roll with the remaining QDs - plug Bucket QDs to loader arm QDs on the tractor side.

So now your loader valve should operate the bucket and your bucket valve should operate the loader arms.

Test to see what works and what doesn't. Your original joystick motion for the loader should now control the bucket.

The joystick movement originally controlling the bucket should now operate the loader arms.

If both work normally, run it that way for a bit due to the intermittent symptoms mentioned, to determine if a problem still exists and what is affected.

IF the issue moves so the loader arms are not working, it could be your QDs originally controlling the bucket on the tractor side at the demarcation point, or the valve at the joystick controlling the bucket.

IF the problem stays with the bucket, it is likely something affecting one of the bucket QDs on the loader side of the demarcation.

Return all to the original configuration.

To further isolate, try then swapping individual QDs at the demarcation one at a time, depending on which function and which side of the demarcation seems to be affected using "known good" QDs from the loader arm lineup.

Return to original configuration.

The key is to step back and think through what pieces and parts seem to be working OK, and use them to test and isolate the suspect components. What makes yours a bit complex is the intermittent nature, and difficulty recreating the symptoms on demand.
 
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/ SOLVED: FEL not curling down properly #17  
For me I always regret when I don’t take the time to label or mark to know what goes where and a picture or two goes a long way…

Different color zip ties, 3M color or number tape sure helps.
 
/ SOLVED: FEL not curling down properly
  • Thread Starter
#18  
Thanks for taking the time to give such a detailed reply. I had removed the male QD's from the loader hoses, then swapped the QDs for curling and lifting. The problem remained with the lifting/raising of the bucket. That tells me that the male QDs are good. Yesterday, I disconnected the hoses for the loader and inspected the female QDs. That's not easy to do on the 2305 with a diverter for the mower. The hoses are under the floorboard, and are very crowded since the mowing deck and loader hoses are all in the same area. I had to lay on the floor, do a half situp holding a light and move hoses around so that I could see into the female QDs. Not easy for an old guy! But it did appear that in one of them, the piece that the poppet on the male pushes was a little off center in the female. I got a small screwdriver and tried to re-center it as best as I could. When I put the hoses back on it did seem to work better, but definitely not fixed. I'm thinking that the female QD needs to be replaced. But, I am getting my firewood for next winter before the black flies come out in May. So, it's working well enough until I finish the wood.

Today, I did swap the hoses for the loader and the bucket. Everything worked pretty well, which surprised me. The loader still had some delays, but the bucket curled well. I was expecting the curling to have issues if that female QD has problems. So, I'm a little perplexed, but am still thinking that the female QD has issues. I will continue debugging as I go along. But first, I have to get the wood done.
 
/ SOLVED: FEL not curling down properly
  • Thread Starter
#19  
I think that it is fixed this time. It was what I thought. I disconnected one of the raise/lower hoses, got a good light on the female QD, crawled into a spot where I could see through the hoses, and it appeared that the poppet was off center. I'm not sure if it is called a poppet in the female coupler. I got a small screw driver and pushed it into the center, re-connected the hose, and it's been working since then.
 

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