Snow Snow Plow Loader Modification

[TTTTTT]

This is a mod for my quick attach loader that is finished but yet to be tried. This weekend I'm taking it up to the cottage where there is about 2 feet of snow. I hope all my measurments are right as I have not tried the new loader bracket on the actual loader. It has now been painted but I didn' get a pic yet. Wanted to make sure everthing was going to work. As I am new to welding it is definitely not a piece of art but should be built to last. I was lucky to get most of the steel for it for nothing so that made it easier. I didn't want to destroy the plow frame so I made so it could be removed with a long 3/4" dia pin. This way the plow could still be used on a conventional truck frame. Also this way I can just remove the plow quickly (1 pin) and use the new loader frame for another mod. Actually I plan to add a 2" reciever piece on top for normal hitch type attachments and definitly for a boom extention (next year). I put a new wear bar on and bought new skid shoes. The hydraulic cylinders are good and will hook up lines to control angle adjustment next year with loader controls doing the rest. I'll post pics and maybe a video clip next week. Hopefully all will go as planned

Thanks for looking,
Dave

Existing Loader

Cheap 8' Plow


New Loader/Plow Adapter

 

[mffarmall]

That looks good. As long as the snow is removed, looks are nothing. I was just wondering what the weight is? Are you going to need to put some weight on the back of the tractor to even you out?

 

[TTTTTT]

That looks good. As long as the snow is removed, looks are nothing. I was just wondering what the weight is? Are you going to need to put some weight on the back of the tractor to even you out?

The plow probably weighs in at about 400-500 lbs, I can lift the bracket I made, so it is probably about 100-120 lbs. Given that, its 1/2 the loader capacity, so I'm not too worried except for the extra weight in the back for traction. May have to add some if I can't get enough grip. We'll see....

Thanks Dave

 

[Diamondpilot]

Just run around with a bush hog or something like that on and you will be fine. The problem is not the weight but the distance it will be form the tractor.

Chris

 

[kennyd]

How are you going to hold the plow up? A chain? If so to... what?


My only comment is that it looks way to far forward of the loader, and I think you might have steering problems because the plow is so far forward, and you possibly risk torquing your loader frame because of the extended length.

Your fabrication looks top-notch though

PS. Just so you don't think I'm attacking you...I had a FEL plow that i had built myself-but got rid of it because of the loss of steering and the constant need for adjustment it requires to operate.

 

[TTTTTT]

Thanks for the comments. I have thought of that. Although I haven't operated a plow in this way, the plow would be supported on the skid shoes at the right level. With the float control for the loader I thought this would absorb any minor elevation changes. Of course I will not be going fast like a pickup clearing out a parking lot. I would hope to take it slow and controled in areas I am familiar with. Of course hoping not to hit one of those imovable objects that could mess things up. I am interested in any comments or experiences. Either way after this weekend I will have good idea what it will be like. At least I don't have a lot of $'s invested and I could probably sell off the plow for more than what I paid, (I purposely didn't butcher the A frame of the plow) and did put a new wear bar on the front. I'll post how it all turns out.

Dave

 

[kennyd]

the plow would be supported on the skid shoes at the right level.

OK, I see now, I missed the part of the frame forward of your long pin that holds the plow from tipping down when you raise the FEL. That's why I asked about the chain.

With the float control for the loader I thought this would absorb any minor elevation changes

I think if you put the FEL in float, the loader arms will go down to low.

I hope I am wrong and it all works well for you- I know my experience was less than pleasurable, but my tractor is smaller than yours also,

 

[mffarmall]

I was thinking about buying a snow blower for the front. Anyone know where to get one cheap?

As I get older it seems that things that save time are worth it.

 

[TTTTTT]

Sorry about that. I'm hoping extending the frame forward will make it stable enough. Also when I move the wheels out to a wider stance next year, I should get a little more stability for the plow and help for the steering. If the float drops the plow down, the skid shoes set at the right will keep it where I want also taking some of the weight and strain off the loader frame. It sounds good in theory, hope it will work in practice.

Dave

 

[JDeerekid]

Nice fab work. I am interested in how it will workout for you. I agree with Kennyd about it being to far foward. You will definately need alot of weight on the rear of your tractor for traction. I was planning and still am contemplating adapting a blade I have to the front of my tractor. The thing I am contemplating is whether to put it on the loader or attaching to the frame of the tractor.
If you are planning on using the float postion on your loader I would reccomend putting skids directly under your attaching point to the loader and also the skids on the blade.
Another thing maybe shorten the center section on the frame. Looks to ba about a foot or so. This might help with having sit so far out but still having the stability.
I hope it is alright but I modified some of your photos to show you what I am talking about.
Either way it is nice to build your own things and use them.
On a side note just curious what tractor you have(hp, weight, width, lift capacity).

 

[kennyd]

I was thinking about buying a snow blower for the front. Anyone know where to get one cheap?

As I get older it seems that things that save time are worth it.

A little off topic for this thread don't you think?

 

[kennyd]

If the float drops the plow down, the skid shoes set at the right will keep it where I want also taking some of the weight and strain off the loader frame. It sounds good in theory, hope it will work in practice.

But how will the shoes hold the rear of the frame up and level when there is a hinge between the attachment point(loader arms) and the shoes?

What happens in real life is this: As the blade pushes the snow and gets weight in front of it, and the tractor is still pushing forward then the front lifts up. The loader becomes the hinge point. So then you lift the blade a little to get some weight back on the front-but now you are missing snow!

This same thing happens with just the bucket on-try driving into a dirt pile with the loader in float. The rear of the tractor keeps pushing and the front comes up. It kind of wants to "fold in the middle" so to speak.

 

[PILOON]

"This same thing happens with just the bucket on-try driving into a dirt pile with the loader in float. The rear of the tractor keeps pushing and the front comes up. It kind of wants to "fold in the middle" so to speak."


That's because the hinge or pivot point is up high for the loader arms.
The heavier the load up front the higher will be the lifting action.

The real solution is to have what I call 'straight line push', eg the blade push arms really need to be at the same height on the tractor than as where they connect at the plow blade.

On my little Mitsubish MT180D I fabbed an attachement to my loader subframe and carried the same height fwd to my 6ft home made blade.

I can push really full loads at top speed just like with a 4wd snow plow truck and still have steering! (mind u my top speed is a mere 10mph)
I concocted this arrangement as I did not wish to spend all day SLOOOWLY blowing mere 2-4" snow falls.

Oh, and for lifting I 'unpin' my loader bucket (mere 5 mins=4 pins) and have a hook welded on the 'loader cross tube' and a dedicated length of chain that drops down to the plow A frame.

Fact is I never re-attach the bucket all winter as the set-up is so efficient that I can literally bulldoze 3-4ft snowbanks as far back as I dare to venture.

When 'bulling' the snowbanks back I generally hold the blade about 3- 4" off of the ground and gradually lift as I push causing the snow to roll away foreward.
I then reverse and clean up the remaining snow.

Oh, and for real fast light snow cleanups I have a manual angling off to the right so that I can gather all the white stuff in the center then only needing one pass with the blower.

Project link:
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/build-yourself/66045-snow-plow-my-mt180d.html

 

[TTTTTT]

Nice fab work. I am interested in how it will workout for you. I agree with Kennyd about it being to far foward. You will definately need alot of weight on the rear of your tractor for traction. I was planning and still am contemplating adapting a blade I have to the front of my tractor. The thing I am contemplating is whether to put it on the loader or attaching to the frame of the tractor.
If you are planning on using the float postion on your loader I would reccomend putting skids directly under your attaching point to the loader and also the skids on the blade.
Another thing maybe shorten the center section on the frame. Looks to ba about a foot or so. This might help with having sit so far out but still having the stability.
I hope it is alright but I modified some of your photos to show you what I am talking about.
Either way it is nice to build your own things and use them.
On a side note just curious what tractor you have(hp, weight, width, lift capacity).

Great comments. I have new skid shoes for the front (blade). I wasn't going to put on the back (frame) but may have to. As needed, if I have the loader raised a little and then angle the blade down a little to compensate it I thought it would do the trick although not tried yet. I know it is out a little far but I was hoping to use the same adapter for other uses and not having to make another for the loader thats why it is a little far out. I have my info under my profile but it doesn't appear to show up. Anyway, I have a DF354 (Dongfeng). 35hp, weighs about 4000 lbs. with loader, width with wheel set in about 66" (plan to move them out next year for a little better stability), loader has a 1200lb capacity, rear lift about 1500lbs.

But how will the shoes hold the rear of the frame up and level when there is a hinge between the attachment point(loader arms) and the shoes?

What happens in real life is this: As the blade pushes the snow and gets weight in front of it, and the tractor is still pushing forward then the front lifts up. The loader becomes the hinge point. So then you lift the blade a little to get some weight back on the front-but now you are missing snow!

This same thing happens with just the bucket on-try driving into a dirt pile with the loader in float. The rear of the tractor keeps pushing and the front comes up. It kind of wants to "fold in the middle" so to speak.

I figured any big banks I would use the bucket, and everyday plowing (usually not too much snow and weight) , this set up would be ok. It wouldn't be quite the same as moving into a pile of dirt. I figured the snow will be a fraction of the resistance of a dirt pile, but I definitely appreciate all the comments. Its making me think of all the possibilities of what will & will not work. Piloon- saw your setup.. very nice. Hope mine works as well as yours.

Dave

 

[ray66v]

Fyi, Unless your plowing completely flat drives, I have found it is beneficial for the plow to be able to have some ability to pivot on a rotational axis. Meaning; it needs to be able to go up or down a little on each side independent of the tractor, and the loader frame. This problem is exacerbated by the addition of the length needed to accommodate the plow frame. Without the ability to pivot, plowing on uneven ground will put twisting stresses on your loader arms, potentially bending them, or the plow frame.

I accomplished this, through the horizontal pivot point for angling. I found if it was left slightly loose enough, it will allow some rotation. This "slop" by the time it is measured at the ends, allowed about 2" or 3" of rotation. That way, the plow ends can move up or down as needed, independent of the tractor, eliminating the stress.

 

[TTTTTT]

Fyi, Unless your plowing completely flat drives, I have found it is beneficial for the plow to be able to have some ability to pivot on a rotational axis. Meaning; it needs to be able to go up or down a little on each side independent of the tractor, and the loader frame. This problem is exacerbated by the addition of the length needed to accommodate the plow frame. Without the ability to pivot, plowing on uneven ground will put twisting stresses on your loader arms, potentially bending them, or the plow frame.

I accomplished this, through the horizontal pivot point for angling. I found if it was left slightly loose enough, it will allow some rotation. This "slop" by the time it is measured at the ends, allowed about 2" or 3" of rotation. That way, the plow ends can move up or down as needed, independent of the tractor, eliminating the stress.
Today 08:52 AM

Good comment. It will be a little uneven but not a lot. I am hoping angling left or right will also help. Do you think adding a heavy spring to each of the skid shoe posts holding them down but then allowing them to keep contact when one end leave the ground would work? Kind of like an independant floating point (independant suspension) for each of the front shoes. I would think the weight of the plow would keep them compressed when down but as they lift keep contact with the ground. just a thought if this way doesn't work as planned. Also a few finished pics. Had lots of grey rust paint around hence the colour.

Dave

 

[JDeerekid]

When are you gonna get any snow to try this beast out??? In my neck of the woods I would of had that think out about a dozen times already.

 

[TTTTTT]

Lots of snow at the cottage where I was going to be today. It will now wait til tomorrow 1st thing when I'm going. Will post the results next week sometime.

 

[RonMar]

I think you are going to have problems when you angle the blade. Snow is very heavy and has great mass when plowed. With the moment arm of the blade way out in front of the tractor CG, and the lifting force encountered when pushing the loader into something in float, I think the front end is going to go the opposite direction that the plow is angled, with any appreciable snow build up in front of the plow. I helped build a plywood plow for the front of a 250CC quad, and this was the problem when we tried to angle the blade. the front would just slide off the other direction even with full steering . Someone setting out in front of the handlebars improved things a bit, but there just wasn't enough lateral traction to maintain a straight line against the side force of the snow on the angled blade.

In your case, more weight in the back will make the situation worse as it will effectively shift the CG toward the rear and lessen the weight on the front axle and the laterial traction it provides.

Loader arms are also not particularly strong in the side axis, and again with the point where the force will be applied being way out in front(long moment arm) the potential for loader damage might be pretty high. I can't tell you how many solid objects I have hit under the snow, and this is quite common.

In my snow plowing experience, the speed at which you plow can really enhance plow effectiveness by storing a little energy in the moving snow as it curls up the blade. But with the blade way out on the arms, I would think too much speed, enough to get this type snow movement, would be a bad idea. It is afterall a front end LOADER, not a PLOW...

At a place I once worked back in upstate NY, we had a JD 4X4 tractor with FEL, about 40HP, I forget the model. It had a full cab and was a pretty nice machine. We fabricated a custom mount for an old pickup plow we had lying around, similar to the one you have used. Our mount however was attached to the front of the frame and again back behind the front axle, similar to how some of the truck mounts are attached to the frame. We had a single hydraulic cylinder to lift the front of the plow frame, and with the plow straight, we could just lower the FEL bucket down in front of the snowplow. You did have to have the bucket raised to angle the snowplow blade, and you coundn't get the original manufacturers angle on the plow with it so close to the front as it would contact the tires, but it worked great! A bucket full of snow kept the front end loaded as good as, if not better than the pickup plows I have used. We got a lot of snow in Upstate NY, and when the banks built up, you could push the snow as far up against the bank as it would go with the plow, then back up a little bit, and use the loader bucket to lift and push the snow up and over the top of the bank. No changing cold steel parts to get a different impliment on, everythig you needed was already there ready to use. The plow mounted/unmounted just like it did on a truck, with 3 pins and 2QC hydraulic fittings.

If I had enough snow to warrant a plow, I would probably configure a mount that conected to the rear drawbar/axle, and use the 3PH to raise/lower the blade. But that is just me, and I have always been a little bassackwards

 

[TTTTTT]

Hi Ron,

Thanks for the detailed experience. As I did a slight measurement miscalculation on my adapter, I couldn't try it this weekend and had to use the bucket anyway. With 2' of snow I had to clear down to a reasonable amount anyway before I could attempt with the plow. With yours and a few other comments,I think I will modify it a bit and bring it a little closer to the loader and as well possibly bracing it back to the tractor frame. I was trying to get a few more uses out of it and be able to detach it easily but that may not be able to work. Like I said earlier, I don't have a lot invested now , so I don't mind playing with it a bit and see if it will work.

Dave