Smoking TC40DA on start up

TCowner · Jun 3, 2004

I took delivery of a TC40DA in early April and have about 20 hours on the tractor. I traded a two year old TC40D with 350 hours.

The tractor is working fine but since delivery has a nasty quirk. It fills my shed with smoke when it starts and runs rough for about 10 seconds or so. After that the tractor runs fine. ALso, if the engine is warm it starts fine without the smoke.

Initially I thought it might be a problem with poor fuel but I am using the same fuel in my John Deere X595 garden tractor and that tractor exhibits no problem. I've also gone to a different source for fuel with the last fill up and the problem continues.

My NewHolland dealer sent a service tech out yesterday and claims everything checks out ok. He went back to the dealership and started two different Class III DAs and they both did the same as mine.

Anyone else with the new DA model notice the same thing? I would expect some smoking and rough running if it was 40 degrees but it was 70 degrees yesterday. Again, my old TC40D didn't do this.

jinman · Jun 3, 2004

The repair manual says excessive smoke is either a restriction of the intake (air filter) or excessive fuel delivery. I can't offer much more advice because, like your old TC40D, my TC45D doesn't smoke much on starting. I wonder if all your glowplugs are working? If one cylinder didn't fire (spit and sputter) for a second, that could fill your exhaust with raw fuel and cause smoking as the other cylinders fired. You did say it runs rough, so I think I'd suspect something like this. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Maybe you'll get some better feedback from actual DA owners.

TCowner · Jun 3, 2004

Jim, the service tech claims he checked the glow plugs and everything checked out ok. The fact the other DAs on his lot also smoke and run rough would lead one to believe that it is a common problem.

I would like to hear from other DA owners if they have noticed the same problem.

ZJ_HR · Jun 3, 2004

What kind of smoke? Black or light blue?

davcon · Jun 3, 2004

I know I have a different engine etc. but my 'O3 TC29D, 35 hours, smokes, coughs, knocks and sputters for five to ten seconds and then clears up. It doesnt matter what the outside temp is. I called the dealer and he said "they all do that". Dont like it but I guess I have to live with it. Would like to know if other 29 owners have the same problem

have_blue · Jun 3, 2004

I put nearly 600 hours on a TC29, and it never ran rough or smoked (white or black) when it started. That's in 100* weather and in 35* weather. Same with TC35. In 105 hrs, not even a miss.

TMAC · Jun 3, 2004

Terry,
I have a new TC45DA with 26hrs on it and I don't notice any problems concerning your specific question, yet!! /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif It does throw the normal black cloud of smoke out the exhaust on start up like all diesel engines do but idles/runs fine when warming up and so on. No unusual exhaust smoke filling up the garage or anything.

It fills your whole shed full of smoke? To the severity of causing you to get off the tractor and get out cause it's so bad or not quite that bad? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif If running rough and smoking that bad then something can't be quite right Terry. I'd watch it and document how it's running like you have been. Report back to the dealer if it doesn't straighten up. Brand-new tractor should run brand-new I think.

Were you present when the Tech went back to the dealership and started the other DA's up to compare? If not I would see for myself. There might be a little leg-pulling going on. Check it out and good luck Terry. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif Hope it either starts running better for you or they try and fix the problem. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif Keep us updated on how everything goes. Maybe someone else can help.

Typhoon · Jun 3, 2004

I suspect that what you are seeing is completely normal. I have been operating my tractor for a year now (TC29D), and it does the same thing... sputters and smokes for 5 to 10 seconds then starts to smooth out. I have also been operating some Cat heavy equipment in the last couple weeks, and it all does the same thing.. and they are like new.. very low hours. I don't think I have ever seen a tractor that doesnt behave like that. Its a diesel engine and that is how they are natured. When you shut your tractor off, there is still some fuel that remains in the cylinder. The fumes evaporate some leaving oily residue. On startup, that residue has to burn off.. hence the smoke and sputtering.
-Brad

Soundguy · Jun 4, 2004

Yikes... /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif I'm writing these model numbers down cause I sure aint getting one that smokes.. and the dealer says it's normal. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

My nearly 800 hour NH 1920 starts on the first click of the starter... and runs perfect thereafter..and I have only made it smoke for a second when hitting a real lugging load.

Soundguy

have_blue · Jun 4, 2004

( Yikes... /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif I'm writing these model numbers down cause I sure aint getting one that smokes.. and the dealer says it's normal. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif Soundguy )

I totally agree. Smoking and sputtering are not normal for the TC 29, 35, 40, 45 on startup. If mine started that, I'd take it back and make them fix it.

I never did learn if the smoking in question was white or just fat diesel smoke. That makes a world of difference.

But anyway, it is normal to get a little puff of black smoke on startup, but just 1 puff as it lights off. Sputtering probably indicates a bad glo plug or a bad injector, pump, or dirty filters.

thcri · Jun 4, 2004

My 29 starts up just fine. However after running about 15 seconds it does start to spit and studder and spill out smoke. There is times it will even choke itself out and I will have to re-start. Dealer says he is not sure why it is doing that but would be glad to look at it for a fee now that it is two years old.
/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
murph

have_blue · Jun 4, 2004

( My 29 starts up just fine. However after running about 15 seconds it does start to spit and studder and spill out smoke. There is times it will even choke itself out and I will have to re-start. Dealer says he is not sure why it is doing that but would be glad to look at it for a fee now that it is two years old.
/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
murph )

Murph,

Does it die lean, or die fat? If it's dying lean, it's a fuel restriction problem of some sort. If fat, it's worn injectors (not likely for 2 years old) or maybe even a leaky injector. It could also be a glo plug. In any case, it's likely to slowly worsen. Hopefully very slowly. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

AndyMA · Jun 4, 2004

I have a question. In many of these post and others glo plugs are mentioned when ever questions about starting come up. Are the glo plugs on the new Boomers used for all starts? This is not the way it has been for years prior. Glo Plugs were only used when necessary. On my 2120, I probably use the glo plugs for only about 10% of the starts in a year. On the TN which does not have glo plugs, I very rairly use the air preheat.

Andy

hazmat · Jun 4, 2004

I have a question. In many of these post and others glo plugs are mentioned when ever questions about starting come up. Are the glo plugs on the new Boomers used for all starts? 

I run them whenever the engine is cold, regardless of outside temp. 10 seconds does the trick in the winter (much helped by the block heater). 5 seconds in the summer. My machine doesn't automatically shut them down when they get up to temp (I think some of the bigger machines do).

DVerbarg · Jun 4, 2004

I use the preheat whenever the engine is "cold", regardless of the temps outside. The only time my TC40D smokes is when it is extremely cold and having problems warming up (below zero f).

Oh, my TC40D is over 4 years old.

MikePA · Jun 4, 2004

On every start, I always hold the key until the glow plug light goes out. If I don't do this, even on a warmed engine, it runs rough initially.

Inspector507 · Jun 4, 2004

Me too Mike. Although on the TC18, the glow plugs have no timer. I keep them glowing for 10 seconds or so, it starts so much easier. Cranks longer and runs rougher for a bit if I don't.

yellowsocks93 · Jun 4, 2004

I know I am more of a Deere man and should not be posting here but we had a new 790 in the shop and I started it to move it and it ran real rough always. Sputtering when you give it a little throttle, smoked bad. My 790 never did this and the 990 surely does not run rough even when it is below zero and no starting aid.

Soundguy · Jun 5, 2004

( On every start, I always hold the key until the glow plug light goes out. If I don't do this, even on a warmed engine, it runs rough initially. )

I almost always hold the glow pulg till the light goes out on my 1920 if it is not a warmed engine. I do forget occasionally.. and so far have noticed no difference in starting. I just try to make a practice of using them to make it easier ont he engine initially.

Soundguy

3_V_Dirt_Works · Jun 5, 2004

( Are the glo plugs on the new Boomers used for all starts? )

Yes, they cycle on for 6 seconds on all starts. This is one of the relays that is connected to the ignition. The real question is weather or not you wait for them to go full cycle before starting the tractor.