Sisal Vs. Polypropylene Twine on an older baler

[lazermule]

Hello Guys,

I have an older baler (IH 430 "All Twine") that works pretty well for the most part. I pull it with a new Massey 1736 (36 hp) and it misses a knot on every 15 to 20 bales but I deal with it. Anyway, the guy I bought it from said to only use the sisal twine as he heard it works better. in the 430's In my area, sisal is 2x+ the cost of the PP twine. I guess I'm curious as to what everyone's thoughts are on this? Is there a major departure between the two where the baler would need MAJOR adjustments? I'd like to try the PP, but I don't want to get into a situation where I'm buying both types because the PP did't work. Anyone running an IH 430 All Twine with PP and having good luck? Also seems like the PP would be a stronger twine which would be nice.

Thanks,

LM

 

[RickB]

All poly twine is not created equal. Knot strength is printed right on the wrapper. Buy a bale of 170 lb knot strength plastic twine and try it. Make sure your twine knives are VERY sharp. Otherwise I can’t speak about All Twine knotters. They are a different animal than Rasspe knotters.

 

[countryguy1225]

I found that between the two types for me, it was a function of the diameter. Too thin and it failed. To thick and it failed. I do not know this machine, but on my NH 268 from 1967 it was specific to the size more than anything of the properties of poly to sisal. ( from trial and error). Here is a post you may find interesting.
Sisal 9000 and 7200 Side by Side Pic - Yesterday's Tractors

 

[RickB]

I found that between the two types for me, it was a function of the diameter. Too thin and it failed. To thick and it failed. I do not know this machine, but on my NH 268 from 1967 it was specific to the size more than anything of the properties of poly to sisal. ( from trial and error). Here is a post you may find interesting.
Sisal 9000 and 7200 Side by Side Pic - Yesterday's Tractors

Exactly why I recommend 170 lb knot strength. With all the marketing games being played it is no longer reliable to use length to determine twine thickness or strength. I used to sell pallets of 9600 ft plastic that had a 170 lb knot strength. Old school packaging would have that strength twine in a 7200 foot bale.

 

[zzvyb6]

My answer is simple. My JD 14T came equipped with sisal twine specifications. I converted it to run 'plastic' from a box labeled BT130 - 9000. It is currently $18 for a 2 spool box at Rural King.

As my manual states: There are 2 friction clamp settings that nee to be set when using plastic OR sisal. 1st is pullout force from the twine box. There are 2 clamp plates at the outlet of the twine box on the inside. A fish scale and a 10 lb pullout force for each string is specified. Plastic is more slippery, so you need higher clamping force. This keeps the damping level in the twine high as the needles quickly rise up into the bale chamber.

Next spec is the twine disk clamping force. 10 lbs also. This keeps the twine from pulling out of the disk as it awaits the other end of the string being delivered by the needles. Same reasoning: theplastic is more slippery, so higher clamping force. A wrench and a fish scale is all it takes.

There is a thinner twine used for round bales, but if you learned to read in school, all the information you need to have to pick the right stuff is on the box. Yes, I see JD green twine bales at the JD dealer without a box. So, you have to ask.

 

[countryguy1225]

BC, Nice write up! Engineers used to spend a lot of time writing these things up for us for sure. RTFM On the NH, I found that there are also different bill hook sizes that can be used as well. Some have a wider jaw. Some sites sell a twine bill hook which is different than a sisal bill hook. And it is up to the owner to sort it out via the manuals for those other supporting technical details. While we all just want a consistent knot, it is a bit of an orchestration to make it happen like music on hay concert day. Heck you taught me to just feed bales manually and get in there to adjust and tweak! Happy knotting yall.

 

[Bigfoot62]

I just pay the price for the sisal twine. Bought a whole pallet of it last week.

For me, the cost of sisal is still cheaper than the repairs that are caused by plastic. It will end up taking its toll on bearings. I won't have it on my place.
JMHO

 

[Trillium Farm]

Some older balers cannot handle PP twine, you have to test & try, also as already said you may have to try different strengths.

 

[Trillium Farm]

I just pay the price for the sisal twine. Bought a whole pallet of it last week.
For me, the cost of sisal is still cheaper than the repairs that are caused by plastic. It will end up taking its toll on bearings. I won't have it on my place. JMHO

No poly for me either !!! Also depending on the market some people will not buy small square with poly.

 

[powerscol]

You know this is and interesting thread. When I got my Heston 4550 it had some partial balls of twin. No name on the wrappers. Not knowing better I got the economic Titan pink stuff and had major problems with knots and line breakage. Called the dealer I bought it from and was educated that I did not have enough knot strength and get rid of the Titan brand. They recommended Briden 9600, Since using it I have had zero problems. All I can say is try different twin and see what works best. My COOP actually has partial boxes (returns) for folks to try as balers can be picky on what works best due to all the variable and adjustments that you can make to the knotter set up.

Hope this helps

 

[BrokenTrack]

PP twine ruins the fleeces on sheep wool too.

 

[5030]

Back when I ran squares (my 575 has not left the barn in 4 years now, should probably sell it but when I do, luck will be I need it...) I always ran poly. reason being is I sold squares to horsey people and if they stored the bales, their mice would chew the strings. My 575 will run either. The twine discs are sisal / poly compatible.

On an older baler, you will have to change the twine discs to run poly because it's more slippery and the disc had to grip the poly tighter than the sisal. Probably need to change the initial tension at the twine box as well. Your baler manual will tell you what the proper tension is. I use a trigger pull gauge (firearms) to determine the correct tension. Trigger pull gauges are in ounces and pounds of pull and your manual will call out the correct value.

 

[5030]

PP twine ruins the fleeces on sheep wool too.

Belfast?? My very close friend lives in Stockton Springs, just down the road from you.

 

[RickB]

Back when I ran squares (my 575 has not left the barn in 4 years now, should probably sell it but when I do, luck will be I need it...) I always ran poly. reason being is I sold squares to horsey people and if they stored the bales, their mice would chew the strings. My 575 will run either. The twine discs are sisal / poly compatible.

On an older baler, you will have to change the twine discs to run poly because it's more slippery and the disc had to grip the poly tighter than the sisal. Probably need to change the initial tension at the twine box as well. Your baler manual will tell you what the proper tension is. I use a trigger pull gauge (firearms) to determine the correct tension. Trigger pull gauges are in ounces and pounds of pull and your manual will call out the correct value.

There is only one part number for twine discs on each model of NH small square balers. There are different billhooks for the twine types. Billhooks for plastic twine work just fine on sisal twine. 500 series and newer balers came standard with hooks for plastic twine.

 

[5030]

There is only one part number for twine discs on each model of NH small square balers. There are different billhooks for the twine types. Billhooks for plastic twine work just fine on sisal twine. 500 series and newer balers came standard with hooks for plastic twine.

You are correct to a point. On the 575 (I had to pull out the shop manual to look as I haven't used it in a number of years, the twine discs on my 575 are adjustable for tension via the adjustment bolt. To quote the shop manual...The twine holder is a double plate which holds the twine in the twine. The holder is retained in position by a flat spring with an adjustable tension bole. The tension spring must be adjusted for the weight of the bales and type of twine used.

In as much as the 575 is factory built for poly or sisal and the bill hooks are hardened (which is necessary for poly or bill hook wear can be pretty quick). As a rule, I never fool with them. I always set the hydraulic squeeze for a 55 pound bale and left it there.

Back when I used it. It just sits in the barn now.

Anyone want a 575 in very good condition??? lol

I had to dig the shop manual out, was buried.

 

[RickB]

My post is correct in its entirety, not just to a point. I have worked at New Holland dealerships for over 22 years and spent many hundreds of hours repairing small square balers and other hay equipment.