Sine wave Inverter type back up generator for well pump.?

[ponytug]

Actually, I was just looking at that Load balancing diagram for 240V operation.

I can't see any requirement to use the single phase outlets, so all I need do is to distribute the single phase loads, like the fridge and freezer to alternate lines on the panel.

That may mean shuffling a couple of wires , breakers and labels, but that is not a problem.

I need to spend a bit of time with the amp clamp ;-)

I would not sweat it too much. It does not need to be an exact split. Balancing the loads just makes the wear and tear (primarily heat on the insulation in the generator) less. Plus, balanced loads reduce the return current on the neutral.

I tend to monitor the voltage in the two phases and keep them close, knowing that it is a moving target as loads cycle on and off. I also have a plug in Hz (frequency) meter in the house just to keep an eye on how the generator is running.

All the best,

Peter

 

[LittleBill21]

unless you care about the quiet. your original generator should be fine, unless it shows low voltage. people are too caught up in this dirty power

 

[grsthegreat]

Me, i can care less about a quiet or a loud generator, as long as im kept fed, either warm or cool (seasonal) and food protected and animals watered. My genny is far enough from the house that all i hear is a hum, and im a long ways from the neighbor.

When power is out here, alot of neighbors pull out their portable gennys, and there alot louder than my standby.

Actually, in my business, during a long outage, i ONLY get calls to go service a generator when its quiet…..ie not working. So a quiet generator is a pain in my a**.

Just saying


Its alot like me complaining that my diesel trucks all drip oil. His response, its a diesel truck. The only time they dont leak oil is when there out of oil.

 

[steve tym]

This what I get from Franklin:
Nothing has changed about 2-wire motors and inverter generators.

The electronic BIAC 2-wire switch still does not like the modified sinewave coming from an inverter generator.



We see the same problem with inverter generators and SubDrive Controllers.

Even though the generator people say it’s as good as a sinewave generator, it doesn’t always work

 

[LittleBill21]

This what I get from Franklin:
Nothing has changed about 2-wire motors and inverter generators.

The electronic BIAC 2-wire switch still does not like the modified sinewave coming from an inverter generator.



We see the same problem with inverter generators and SubDrive Controllers.

Even though the generator people say it’s as good as a sinewave generator, it doesn’t always work

what inverter generator outputs modified sine wave?

 

[TN8Man]

Got the following from SHEDHEADS

Power Quality​

One of the problems with more inexpensive generators is that the power isn’t always great. Under load, the sine wave of AC power tends to distort. But the Honda eu7000is is capable of producing a very clean sine wave. The total harmonic distortion is a shocking 4%. For reference, the grid power in New York is commonly rated at 6%. This makes it ideal for anyone who’s trying to wire in a backup generator for a home, or run some kind of high end electronics that require a clean sine wave, the Honda eu7000is is a clear winner.

 

[ponytug]

This what I get from Franklin:
Nothing has changed about 2-wire motors and inverter generators.

The electronic BIAC 2-wire switch still does not like the modified sinewave coming from an inverter generator.



We see the same problem with inverter generators and SubDrive Controllers.

Even though the generator people say it’s as good as a sinewave generator, it doesn’t always work

Yes, modified sine wave, aka square wave, is very hard on motors, but it is not what an inverter generator puts out. (At least no inverter generator that I have ever looked at.) Cheap 12V inverters are usually modified sine wave inverters, and that is why they are hard on motors.

Franklin produces many inverter (VFD) capable motors, but that is a different motor, e.g. more robust insulation, and motor laminations compatible with a range of input frequencies. I wonder if your contact a Franklin confused "inverter ready motors"/VFD motors with an inverter generator, which does produce the 60Hz pure sine wave power the Franklin BIAC apparently expects.

All the best,

Peter

 

[LouNY]

Yes, modified sine wave, aka square wave, is very hard on motors, but it is not what an inverter generator puts out. (At least no inverter generator that I have ever looked at.) Cheap 12V inverters are usually modified sine wave inverters, and that is why they are hard on motors.

Franklin produces many inverter (VFD) capable motors, but that is a different motor, e.g. more robust insulation, and motor laminations compatible with a range of input frequencies. I wonder if your contact a Franklin confused "inverter ready motors"/VFD motors with an inverter generator, which does produce the 60Hz pure sine wave power the Franklin BIAC apparently expects.

All the best,

Peter

I do not believe any inverter produces a true sine wave, it takes driven pole generator to produce a true sine wave some of the better quality inverters will provide a very good multi step square wave which can behave almost as a sine wave.

 

[grsthegreat]

Im not up to snuff on inverter units, but its my understanding that the engine charges a battery, and the battery runs thru an inverter to provide power.

I agree, they’re cleaner, but no wheres near true sine wave. Utility generators have very huge number of poles on the rotor , like 24 plus, instead of the 2 to 4 that most whole house and portables have.

The inverters use electronics to clean up the power to a point

 

[etpm]

OK folks, here is a little basic education about inverters. An inverter takes DC power and then "inverts it" by using solid state switching devices to feed the DC to either side of a transformer. By doing this AC is produced. Square wave AC. A transformer is also an inductor and many inductors are used in inverters. Even though a transformer is an inductor an inductor does not need to be a transformer. An inductor is basically a coil of wire. Anyway, after the first stage of switching to get an AC voltage from a DC voltage other stages of switching can occur in an inverter. What makes inverters so efficient is frequency. The higher frequency that the AC is the less wire, usually copper, needs to be used in any inductors. This means transformers can be smaller. So, the inverter uses high frequency until the final stage when it must output 60 cycle AC here in the USA. But since all the AC inside the inverter comes from switching back and forth the AC is not a sine wave but is instead a square wave. So the output will be something that looks like a stepped version of a sine wave. Because it is. Now, these steps can be very large and few in number which means the power will be very hard for many motors to use. Or the steps can be high in number and very small which motors like better. Finally, the stepped output can be "filtered" so that the steps are evened out. This filtering is done with capacitors and inductors. Both inductors and capacitors are energy storing devices. So what happens when they are used is that energy is stored and then released. This storing and releasing absorbs the voltage spikes on the square wave and then releases the voltage on the low voltage part of the square wave. So any inverter power supply that delivers good quality AC power must have good filtering and the square wave must be chopped into many small parts. All this filtering and switching, or chopping, takes extra parts and good engineering. That's why a good inverter power supply costs more money.
Eric