shut down

/ shut down #41  
Very well said. I fly our CEO and CFO weekly in our corporate airplane and I have said since day one I would not take that job for all the money in the world.

Chris
 
/ shut down #42  
If you took $2,000,000 off the exec's pay an handed that out to 50,000 employees, that would come to $40 each per year. This is peanuts compared to the costs of the pay for not working that goes on.
Don't get me wrong, I think some of the execs need to be fired for the way they operated the company, not for the salary they got paid.
 
/ shut down #43  
Very well said. I fly our CEO and CFO weekly in our corporate airplane and I have said since day one I would not take that job for all the money in the world.

Chris

You're right about that. Most big time CEO's I know are on their 3rd wife and their kids don't even know their CEO fathers.

When you're a CEO, you marry your job and raise your business.
 
/ shut down #44  
I still say the problem is the gas prices. I am going to make a lot of people mad for this but we should be paying $6 per gallon. We should have been paying $4 per gallon back in 2000. We did not keep gas prices with inflation and the rest of the world and when they jumped 300% people were not ready for it.

I just talked to my uncle who owns a Shell gas station in Ohio and he said the first 3/4 of the year his sales were only off 1.2%, basically nothing. People did not change their habits, they just bought gas first and let the other bills slide. If gas would have slowly raised in price the car companies would still be selling cars, homes would not be going back to the bank at such a rate, and stocks would be stronger.

Chris
Chris I am of the opinion that this mess would have been avoided if credit would not have been so easy to get. When you open your mailbox and are flooded with credit card offers. When you want to buy a house and you can walk in and get it with no money down and easy qualification terms. When you go to buy a house and you get told you dont make enough money to make the payments but that is ok they will allow you to buy the house with reduced payments and then in 5 years when your income is up you can afford the bigger payments. When you have gotten all those credit cards and maxed them all out and you cannot even make minimum payments someone comes along and tells you that they will loan you 125 per cent of the value of your house to pay the credit cards off with and you dont even have to give the credit cards up. Those are some of the biggest reasons the country is in the mess it is in now.
 
/ shut down #45  
Chris I am of the opinion that this mess would have been avoided if credit would not have been so easy to get. When you open your mailbox and are flooded with credit card offers. When you want to buy a house and you can walk in and get it with no money down and easy qualification terms. When you go to buy a house and you get told you dont make enough money to make the payments but that is ok they will allow you to buy the house with reduced payments and then in 5 years when your income is up you can afford the bigger payments. When you have gotten all those credit cards and maxed them all out and you cannot even make minimum payments someone comes along and tells you that they will loan you 125 per cent of the value of your house to pay the credit cards off with and you dont even have to give the credit cards up. Those are some of the biggest reasons the country is in the mess it is in now.

This all comes back to the parents doing a decent job of raising the kids. When I got married my fiance was in debt and had nothing to show for it. She was making $60,000.00 per year and had a $600 a month house payment and a $400 per month car payment but could not put food on the table. Her living expenses were minimal but credit cards were out of control. I turned her around in 18 months by showing her how to budget and set up a payment plan. I told her the engagement ring came with conditions. It worked out great and she paid things off quicker than I thought she could. She could not believe how much extra money she had after it was gone.

She lacked guidance as do so many when it comes to financial matters. I ask people all the time what could you live on if you had to and most don't know the answer.

Chris
 
/ shut down #46  
I think we bring high prices on ourselves, the more features, the gizmo's the more we want and the more we pay.

Can you still buy a regular cab 3/4 ton 4 speed, with vinyl seat, vinyl floor, am radio and an option of A/C ... I don't know.

GPS, Onstar, Satellite Radio, CD, DVD, Back up camera's, all the bells and whistles ... And then we finance it!!!!


If you add in the diesel engine, my Dad was still able to find one as of 2004 when he bought a new Dodge. Not sure if it was a 4speed or not, but it is a standard transmission. He needed something that would stop when he started down the hill into the parking lot at the auction barn and his old half ton wouldn't. I asked him why he didn't just put brakes on the trailer instead. With gas engines not getting the mileage that diesels were getting, and the cost differential, he did better with a diesel engine (right up till last year when diesel went out of sight and stayed there, compared to gas). Oh, he paid cash for it...
David from jax
 
/ shut down #47  
PBS recently ran an episode of Frontline which touched on the subjects of traditional lifetime retirements and 401k retirements -- amongst other issues. I would recommend your watching it just to have your eyes opened ....

J
 
/ shut down #48  
Renze, I am not familiar with the specifics of the retirement plans at the Big 3 auto makers. Retirement plans in the US are a complex topic.

Generally speaking, in the US federal laws are intended to separate retirement plan assets from the employer's assets or the union's assets so the funds will actually be there when the workers retire. These laws were passed because in the past, both employers and unions were accused of dipping into the funds supposedly set aside for the workers retirement.

There are different types of retirement plans. In one type of plan, the plan provides that the worker will receive a certain benefit in the future when he retires after completing so many years of service. If the plan falls short of providing those benefits, then the company will have to contribute more to make up the shortfall.

In the other type of retirement plan, the plan provides that the company and/or worker will contribute a specific amount today and then any appreciation or shortfall in the worker's account is on the worker and not on the company or the retirement plan.
 
/ shut down #49  
PBS recently ran an episode of Frontline which touched on the subjects of traditional lifetime retirements and 401k retirements -- amongst other issues. I would recommend your watching it just to have your eyes opened ....

J

You gotta watch what you believe from PBS & "Frontline".

Lots of left wing slant on that program......
 
/ shut down #50  
Generally speaking, in the US federal laws are intended to separate retirement plan assets from the employer's assets or the union's assets so the funds will actually be there when the workers retire. These laws were passed because in the past, both employers and unions were accused of dipping into the funds supposedly set aside for the workers retirement.

But I bet our own gov't has no problem spending its' taxpayers social security money.
 
/ shut down #51  
If i understand what I have read. GM has a problem with unfunded retirements. If you want to see someone else that has that problem go look at the government. A Lot of civil service plans are unfunded. The fact that GM has a problem is nothing more or less than the way things were done years ago. I have worked at companies that were not union when I was younger and they had a retirement plan. You did not contribute the company paid into your retirement plan, you worked for them forever and you retired. 401 k retirement plans are something that companies have gone to that allowed them to have less unfunded liabilities with retired workers. The problem with 401 k plans is the stock market. If the stock market goes south like it has done lately then your retirement goes withh it. I have guys at work that have lost over 100,000 dollars out of their retirement account in 2008. If you are younger and have time to make that up is one thing. If you are in your late 50s or early 60s then you have a major problem. Keep in mind that all of the retirees everyone is talking about at GM and others joined the company retirement plan that was available to them. There was not a 401k offered there was a plan and they joined it. Now they are collecting off of that plan and everyone wants to just abandon it because it cost GM too much money. How would you like to be 70 years old living on your retirement and face the idea of having to go to work because your retirement plan has been scrapped. The problem that the big 3 face with retirement issues has to do with several factors. One of the big factors is that they were never funded correctly in the first place. If GM would have had acturaries figure the amount that had to be set back to fund the retirement plan then they would not have that problem today. I am sure all of the big three are in the same boat. Just consider if it was your mother or father that had worked 50 years for GM had lived within their means. Were now living comfortably on retirement and all of a sudden seen that retirement paycheck in real danger. You would not blame them for the problem you would blame the company.
 
/ shut down #52  
I really hope we don't look back and say that the 401k was just another scam to part employee's from their money...

The company I work for only offers a 401k. A few years ago the 401k information sheet was changed by just one word... no one else in the company caught it.

It was changed to read from the company WILL match 25 cents on the dollar, up to 3% of employee contribution to MAY match. Basically the only 401k "Benefit" comes from being able to invest pre-tax dollars...

The reason I said scam is because you never see the same plan administrator twice in a down market... they all seem to get reshuffled.

The advice is always the same... stay the course. They chide people that pull-out or stop their contributions... this and changing plans every other year is why I'm not a believer...

In my case, I would be ahead if I could have just put the money in T-bills... unfortunately not an option with the 401k... They do have an interest option that seems to pay 1/3 to 1/4 of Bank Rate.

I also don't like the lock out periods when no changes can be made and I especially don't like any changes are delayed. If I want to change funds, I'm always basing it on old information vs real time.

Locally, Government Employees seem to have the best retirement programs... with Police and Fire at the top...
 
/ shut down #53  
I really hope we don't look back and say that the 401k was just another scam to part employee's from their money...

The company I work for only offers a 401k. A few years ago the 401k information sheet was changed by just one word... no one else in the company caught it.

It was changed to read from the company WILL match 25 cents on the dollar, up to 3% of employee contribution to MAY match. Basically the only 401k "Benefit" comes from being able to invest pre-tax dollars...

The reason I said scam is because you never see the same plan administrator twice in a down market... they all seem to get reshuffled.

The advice is always the same... stay the course. They chide people that pull-out or stop their contributions... this and changing plans every other year is why I'm not a believer...

In my case, I would be ahead if I could have just put the money in T-bills... unfortunately not an option with the 401k... They do have an interest option that seems to pay 1/3 to 1/4 of Bank Rate.

I also don't like the lock out periods when no changes can be made and I especially don't like any changes are delayed. If I want to change funds, I'm always basing it on old information vs real time.

Locally, Government Employees seem to have the best retirement programs... with Police and Fire at the top...
Actually we have the option of putting our money in T bills. That is what I did with all the money in my 401 k when the stock market went crazy. I lost about 8000.00 but that is a lot better than the 100,000 my friend lost.

Actually some federal employees have 401k accounts also. The best retirement is the people that are still under the original civil service plan. They pay nothing into it. After the required amount of time they get half of their salary or more depending on how long they stay. They do not have to pay anyting into social security at all.
 
/ shut down #54  
Pension Plans:

Defined Benefits
Defined Contributions
401(k)
Social Security


Pensions plans are usually defined as; “Defined Benefits” and “Defined Contributions”. The Defined Benefits fund is what most Police and Fireman belong to. They contribute a percentage of their salary to the fund and their employers match the contribution. The contribution is usually (6%) of gross salary for the employee and (6%) for the employer. The fund is usually managed by a panel of financial experts; the employee has no say as to how the money is invested. If the employee terminates employment prior to becoming vested, he or she can withdraw “Only” the money they have contributed plus a low interest return. If they leave after becoming vested they can leave the money in the fund and receive a small retirement amount when they do retire. The employer contribution stays in the fund.
The “Defined Contribution” plan is what most industries have or had. Under a "defined contribution" plan the employer provides a fixed contribution (again a fixed percentage of salary) to an individual retirement account for each employee. In some, not all defined contribution plans the employee also is required to make a minimum contribution and may contribute more than the minimum. The employee then is given a choice of investment options for these funds. Choices may include fixed annuities, variable annuities, and a variety of mutual funds. The benefit that the employee receives at retirement basically is the value of the account at that time. No cost of living adjustment or health benefits are included in most of these plans although the retiree usually has the option of purchasing an annuity at retirement.
Both defined benefit and defined contribution plans have a vesting period, usually five years. Remember, employees in a “Defined Benefit Plan” who leave before becoming vested get back only their own contributions with interest. After the vesting period there is a substantial difference between the two types of plans. An employee who is vested in a “Defined Contribution Plan” who leaves before reaching retirement age can either cash out his account (including employer contributions) at its current value, or roll it over into another retirement account with his or her new employer or into an individual retirement account.
A 401(k) plan is a type of defined contribution plan (under the IRS's definition). It is a salary reduction plan, where employees must choose a percentage of their salary to contribute to the plan, and the plan spells out the extent of employer matching, if any (regardless of profits). Employee taxable salaries are reduced by these contributions, the contributions are invested, and any earnings are tax-deferred, i.e., until the employee draws the money out at retirement. Two other types of defined contribution plans are profit-sharing plans, in which the plan specifies, for example, that the employer will contribute 10% of net profits each year (divided among participant accounts), and money purchase pension plans, in which the plan defines the contribution as 10% of participants' annual salary, for example. 401(k) plans are not a defined benefit plan, because the benefit formula (specifying what participants will receive at retirement) is not spelled out in the plan. 401(a) profit sharing plans and money purchase pension plans, and 401(k) plans, are individual account plans, because each participant's benefit is the value of an individual account to which the contributions have been made plus any investment income and less any losses. If investments do well, there will be more in the account at retirement; if investments do poorly, there will be less.
In addition, 401(k) plans are tax-qualified plans covered by ERISA such that assets held by the plans are generally protected from creditors of the account holder, which in the past was generally not true for IRA plans. In the case of employer bankruptcy, all 401(a) (pension and defined contribution plans) and 401(k) plans are protected, because of the rule that contributions must accrue to the exclusive benefit of employees in general. ( Even though pension plans are backed by insurance through the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation, workers whose company enters bankruptcy may not receive the full value of their pension. ) US Airways retirees and other company retirees whose company filed for bankruptcy had annual or monthly pension payments dropped. Some took a very substantial monetary loss. ERISA protection of 401(k) assets does not extend to losses in the value of investments that participants choose. Employees investing their 401(k) in their own employer stock face the possibility of losing the value of their retirement accounts that is invested in employer stock along with their jobs if their employer goes out of business.
Defined benefit plans have a definitely determinable benefit amount that usually has a fixed formula, regardless of how the underlying plan assets perform. Defined contribution plan according to Section 414(i) of the IRC have individual accounts. Because plan sponsors want to take advantage of the exemption from the fiduciary duty to diversify plan assets to minimize the risk of large losses by using ERISA Section 404(c), these plans usually provide each worker the ability to control the contents of his account. The account value may fluctuate in value based on the underlying investments. There is a risk that returns may even be negative.
Some companies match employee contributions to some extent, paying extra money into the employee's 401(k) account as an incentive for the employee to save more money for retirement. Alternatively the employer may make profit sharing contributions into the 401(k) plan or just contribute a fixed percentage of wages. These contributions may vest over several years as an inducement to the employee to stay with the employer.
When an employee leaves a job, the 401(k) account generally stays active for the rest of his or her life, though the accounts must begin to be drawn out beginning the April 1st of the calendar year after the attainment of age 70½ (except that under SBJPA 1996, those still employed can defer). In 2004 some companies started charging a fee to ex-employees who maintained their 401(k) account with that company. Alternatively, when the employee leaves the company, the account can be rolled over into an IRA at an independent financial institution, or if the employee takes a new job at a company that also has a 401(k) or other eligible retirement plan, the employee can "roll over" the account into a new 401(k) account hosted by the new employer.
One interesting thing employers have found is that when they stop making contributions to an employee’s 401(K) plan, the employee if he/she was making a contribution stops also.
 
/ shut down #55  
Gator6x4... very detailed and informative.

I've had a little experience with vesting... unfortunately it was all bad.

I took a reduction in pay in exchange for benefits... which included an Employee Stock Purchase Plan, Employee Bonus Plan and 401K Contributions.

35 months later, my division bought itself out from under the corporate umbrella which left me with 20% vesting... so I would have been MUCH better off had I not given up pay for benefits. 80% of employer contributions to my account remained with the old company and were lost to me.

I was also unable to convert my 401k because it was frozen under the same desk rule... one year later it was determined, I was eligible to roll it into an IRA... and just my luck, by the time I could, the value fell 50%.

The explanation given was only 3 employees fell through the cracks and got caught in this catch 22... and I just happened to be one of them.

I'm sure others must have success stories... but, in my case, employer retirement programs have been all bad.

My company MAY match my 401K contributions... if there is no match, I don't see the benefit of investing in my companies limited selection of Mutual Funds.... and it seems we change plan providers about every 18 months.

Rolling over to an IRA also requires an annual fee on modest accounts and leaving it with the employer after leaving the company is costs an annual fee.

The money guys sure seem to have things worked out so no matter what happens they get theirs and what ever is leftover goes to the employee... another case of the Fleecing of the American worker?
 

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