Shop Layout Software Question

[Workstead]

Is there a (relatively) simple program that will give me at least a 2D drawing so I can lay out my shop.

Ideally it would have templates for various pieces of woodworking, metalworking and welding equipment. Having 3D capabilities would be a plus. Free would be nice.

I am not a draftsman, by any stretch of the imagination, so it would have to have a short learning curve.

Is this "pie in the sky" or is there something like this "out there?"

Thanks,

Clem

 

[millhaven_nice_guy]

I have had great success with Google Sketchup! It is a free download that allows you to build 3D models very quickly. they also have a massive library online for all kinds of things. Youtube has alot of tutorials take a look at a couple of them. It seems difficult to use but spend a couple of hours and you will be hooked.

 

[trialsguy]

There is a thread going on that has some ideas but I think google sketch-up is great for the exterior design
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/build-yourself/159203-framing-diy-software.html

I have tried envisioneer express, a little more of a learning curve then google sketch-up
they offer a free version here for a cad program CadStd - Cad Standard Lite freeware and inexpensive Pro software.

 

[EddieWalker]

I have an older version of Broaderbund Home Design 5.1 I use it for homes and floorplans, but I also used it for my shop. I draw the walls, put in the doors and windows, then select from the tools for furniture to place in the space so I can get a feel of how the space will work. I can drag the furniture around, change what direction it faces and even make it smaller or bigger. For a shop, or any space, I can select a table and change the dimensions to anything I want. To figure out where my table saw would go, I just placed a table where I thougth it might fit. Then I put other tables around for benches and storage areas. I can label each table anything that I want it to represent.

As a contractor, this has really been helpful with clients who want me to build something, but are unsure on how big they need it, or how their stuff will fit in the space. I did a storage shed over the summer that I created about a dozen different versions of how they could arrange their stuff and then added other features to it. They liked the biggest fanciest version, which meant a bigger job for me, and more money. Being able to offer the different versions for them to look at was invaluable.

I've also found that it takes several tries and versions to get the best possible layout. Once you draw it out and think you have it right, ask others for their input. There is always something that you will forget, and the more you can put into your plan, the cheaper it is to do the earlier you can plan for it. Sometimes it's really something obvious and silly, other times it's something unique that you didn't even know you wanted. A good example is with me is that I forgot to add a shop sink to my workshop. I had one in my last workshop and used it every day. It's something I absolutley wanted, but forgot about while working on layout, electrical plugs, lighting and door placement. In fact, it wasn't until I was running drain lines that my Mom asked about the shop sink.

Good luck,
Eddie

 

[GPintheMitten]

I've used SmartDraw for a number of projects. They have templates for many items including shop items. You can get a 30 day free trial with a limited number of printings during the trial. I purchased my license.

Delta woodworking has a free tool. Here:

Delta Porter-Cable Shop Designer

Grizzly also has a shop designer:

http://www.grizzly.com/workshopplanner.aspx

 

[Steve C]

Is there a (relatively) simple program that will give me at least a 2D drawing so I can lay out my shop.

Ideally it would have templates for various pieces of woodworking, metalworking and welding equipment. Having 3D capabilities would be a plus. Free would be nice.

I am not a draftsman, by any stretch of the imagination, so it would have to have a short learning curve.

Is this "pie in the sky" or is there something like this "out there?"

Thanks,

Clem

I have good results with Broaderbund 3-D home architect. I have several versions that I bought for around $10 on the clearance rack at office supply stores. It is an older program that I have that is very easy to use. It doesn't have a lot of shop tools, but it has objects that can be modified to look like them. All the objects are resizable with just a drag and drop, so you can resize a box that is supposed to be a cabinet base to whatever size you want, then you can drop a shelf on it and resize it, place it on top of the cabinet to make a table saw. You cand do these modifications while looking at it in 3d and it shows you the dimensions in real time as you stretch and shrink things to the exact same size as your tools. Most objects can be modeled with a cube and a cylinder or a modification of them. Once you build the object you can push it around and rotate it in plan view with just a mouse click. It is easier to do than it is to describe. You can use the water heater to make anything from a small as a can of soup to as large as a 24 foot above ground swimming pool, just drop it in place and drag it to the proper height and diameter. Doors and windows can be pushed around and resized in the walls in the same manner. It is by far the easiest layout tool I have ever used.
You can easily use the water heater to even model pipes and round ductwork, just lay it on its side, and stretch the length and diameter with your mouse, drag it to the proper location and you are done! Ity is easier to do than it is to describe. Once you use it you will hate to use a "real cadd software" program. It will also export dxf files for use in other programs.

I earned my living using Autocadd, Microstation and 3D Plantview software.

 

[Steve C]

I have an older version of Broaderbund Home Design 5.1 I use it for homes and floorplans, but I also used it for my shop. I draw the walls, put in the doors and windows, then select from the tools for furniture to place in the space so I can get a feel of how the space will work. I can drag the furniture around, change what direction it faces and even make it smaller or bigger. For a shop, or any space, I can select a table and change the dimensions to anything I want. To figure out where my table saw would go, I just placed a table where I thougth it might fit. Then I put other tables around for benches and storage areas. I can label each table anything that I want it to represent.

As a contractor, this has really been helpful with clients who want me to build something, but are unsure on how big they need it, or how their stuff will fit in the space. I did a storage shed over the summer that I created about a dozen different versions of how they could arrange their stuff and then added other features to it. They liked the biggest fanciest version, which meant a bigger job for me, and more money. Being able to offer the different versions for them to look at was invaluable.

I've also found that it takes several tries and versions to get the best possible layout. Once you draw it out and think you have it right, ask others for their input. There is always something that you will forget, and the more you can put into your plan, the cheaper it is to do the earlier you can plan for it. Sometimes it's really something obvious and silly, other times it's something unique that you didn't even know you wanted. A good example is with me is that I forgot to add a shop sink to my workshop. I had one in my last workshop and used it every day. It's something I absolutley wanted, but forgot about while working on layout, electrical plugs, lighting and door placement. In fact, it wasn't until I was running drain lines that my Mom asked about the shop sink.

Good luck,
Eddie

You are right. That is by far the easiest to use program I have ever used that will produce nice 3 d models in almost no time at all.

 

[Workstead]

WOW!

Thanks, guys.

That other software thread is what got me to thinking about shop layout software.

I downloaded Sketchup quite some time ago but never gave it a fair shake.

I might give that a try as I look for an older version of Broerbund's 3D Home Architect. When I read your posts about it I remembered that I had picked up some software about 10 years ago for my son to use as he remodeled his first home. I had it on a shelf collecting dust and it compared itself favorably to 3D Home Architect. It's called IMSI Floor Plan 3D. It might work and if it doesn't you have given me some great alternatives.

Thanks,

Clem

 

[Steve C]

WOW!

Thanks, guys.

That other software thread is what got me to thinking about shop layout software.

I downloaded Sketchup quite some time ago but never gave it a fair shake.

I might give that a try as I look for an older version of Broerbund's 3D Home Architect. When I read your posts about it I remembered that I had picked up some software about 10 years ago for my son to use as he remodeled his first home. I had it on a shelf collecting dust and it compared itself favorably to 3D Home Architect. It's called IMSI Floor Plan 3D. It might work and if it doesn't you have given me some great alternatives.

Thanks,

Clem

I think I have that program also. It is a good program but the learning curve is way higher that the one with 3-d home architect. They may be out of business, I have been unable to find a new copy.

 

[Iplayfarmer]

I'd have to vote for Sketchup for two reasons...

1) The learning curve is very quick, especially considering how powerful it is.
2) The online database of images other users have built can really speed things up. Not only is this database very large, but it is continually growing.

 

[Workstead]

Thanks, Steve.

I won't even load it. I seem to remember that it wasn't at all intuitive and we didn't do anything with it. Maybe that's why they went out of business.

But wait, there's more...

Before I sent this post I did a search for FloorPlan 3D and came up with:


TurboFLOORPLAN 3D Home & Landscape Pro V14. It was on the IMSI website but I couldn't find it anywhere else on the web.

Clem

P.S. Sketchup is beginning to look better.

I think I have that program also. It is a good program but the learning curve is way higher that the one with 3-d home architect. They may be out of business, I have been unable to find a new copy.

 

[Steve C]

I'd have to vote for Sketchup for two reasons...

1) The learning curve is very quick, especially considering how powerful it is.
2) The online database of images other users have built can really speed things up. Not only is this database very large, but it is continually growing.

I have tried sketchup.

I just don't get along with it very well. Perhaps it is much to dissimilar to what I am used to using for the last 20 years or so. It does have a lot of cool textures and such but compared to the old 3-D Home Architect, it is at least 10 times harder to use. With 3-D HA you can draw a double rectangle of 4 walls in 1 second choosing the thickness of the walls from the menue bar. You can then stretch the rectangle to the size of the room you want with one mouse click and it gives you a dynamic update of the dimensions as you stretch the room, so you can make it the exact size you want without typing a single dimension. Again in about 1 second. You can then drop in windows and doors, slide them around in the walls and resize them and or change the style or size with another single mouse click.

In less time than it has taken me to type this I could have drawn a 24 x 24 garage, dropped 6 windows, an entrty door and an overhead door, placed a 24 foot row of cabinets, both upper and lower against the back wall, installed all the recepticals with a single mouse click, and brought it up in a 3-D view and created a "walk through" movie of the finished building. And I can also chose the wall and trim colors by just clicking on the surfaces while in the 3-D view.

And if I want to change it to a 24 x 30 I just click on the wall and stretch the building to 30' long, again using the dynamic updating of the dimension to get its final location. Then when I am done messing around with it I can dimension all the walls, doors and window locations with a single click of the mouse. And I can build a material list just as fast.

And if I want to export it into Autocadd or Microstation for additional detailing I just create a DXF file with a single mouse click.

It is limited in textures and features but it is at least 10 times faster to use than anything else I have seen.

It is so intuitive you can do most of it without ever looking at the book. I think I used it a week before I bothered opening the instruction manual.

 

[Steve C]

Thanks, Steve.

I won't even load it. I seem to remember that it wasn't at all intuitive and we didn't do anything with it. Maybe that's why they went out of business.

But wait, there's more...

Before I sent this post I did a search for FloorPlan 3D and came up with:


TurboFLOORPLAN 3D Home & Landscape Pro V14. It was on the IMSI website but I couldn't find it anywhere else on the web.

Clem

P.S. Sketchup is beginning to look better.

I have been using the IMSI drafting software for 10-15 years. It has progressivly become more powerful and more complicated to use. I have TurboCAD Designer version 15 on this machine. I like many of the older versions better. The object snaps and locks are a little more cumbersome than the set and forget versions that you get with AutoCad or Microstation.

You can do a lot of great things with it, I have just never figured out how to do them fast.

I should mention that I recently bought a software program "3D Home Architect version 10 home and landscape delux suit" to run on my Vista computer. It is by Punch Software. I mistakingly bought it not knowing that it was not by Broaderbund.

It works O.K. It is similar to the past versions of my Punch design software but it is 5 times more complicated to use than the Broaderbund software with the similar name. I just can't seem to warm up to it.

 

[RedDirt]

Clem,
If you are really interested in quick and easy don't rule out graph paper and cut-outs. I've used AutoCad Pro for fifteen years now but I designed several houses and shops before then with the graph paper/cut-out method.

I'd draw the perimeter of the shop on one sheet then make scale cutouts of each piece of equipment and benches, storage bins, etc (and a 4x8 sheet of plywood and a 16ft long board for a woodworking shop). You can do this a lot quicker than learning a CAD program! Then simple look at your normal workflow through the shop and place your equipment accordingly (or where needed for long runs through tools).

I'd sometimes use push pins to hold tool locations temporarily then I'd scotch tape the tools in place once I liked the layout. This worksheet then became the basis of a drafted plan.

Remember to save your self a good chunk of real estate for project assembly.

Whatever method you choose, shop designing is happy work, have fun.

 

[GPintheMitten]

Clem,
If you are really interested in quick and easy don't rule out graph paper and cut-outs. I've used AutoCad Pro for fifteen years now but I designed several houses and shops before then with the graph paper/cut-out method.

I'd draw the perimeter of the shop on one sheet then make scale cutouts of each piece of equipment and benches, storage bins, etc (and a 4x8 sheet of plywood and a 16ft long board for a woodworking shop). You can do this a lot quicker than learning a CAD program! Then simple look at your normal workflow through the shop and place your equipment accordingly (or where needed for long runs through tools).

I'd sometimes use push pins to hold tool locations temporarily then I'd scotch tape the tools in place once I liked the layout. This worksheet then became the basis of a drafted plan.

Remember to save your self a good chunk of real estate for project assembly.

Whatever method you choose, shop designing is happy work, have fun.

I've done it with paper and pencil as well, with cut-outs for objects. Works really well.

 

[EddieWalker]

I have tried sketchup.

I just don't get along with it very well. Perhaps it is much to dissimilar to what I am used to using for the last 20 years or so. It does have a lot of cool textures and such but compared to the old 3-D Home Architect, it is at least 10 times harder to use. With 3-D HA you can draw a double rectangle of 4 walls in 1 second choosing the thickness of the walls from the menue bar. You can then stretch the rectangle to the size of the room you want with one mouse click and it gives you a dynamic update of the dimensions as you stretch the room, so you can make it the exact size you want without typing a single dimension. Again in about 1 second. You can then drop in windows and doors, slide them around in the walls and resize them and or change the style or size with another single mouse click.

In less time than it has taken me to type this I could have drawn a 24 x 24 garage, dropped 6 windows, an entrty door and an overhead door, placed a 24 foot row of cabinets, both upper and lower against the back wall, installed all the recepticals with a single mouse click, and brought it up in a 3-D view and created a "walk through" movie of the finished building. And I can also chose the wall and trim colors by just clicking on the surfaces while in the 3-D view.

And if I want to change it to a 24 x 30 I just click on the wall and stretch the building to 30' long, again using the dynamic updating of the dimension to get its final location. Then when I am done messing around with it I can dimension all the walls, doors and window locations with a single click of the mouse. And I can build a material list just as fast.

And if I want to export it into Autocadd or Microstation for additional detailing I just create a DXF file with a single mouse click.

It is limited in textures and features but it is at least 10 times faster to use than anything else I have seen.

It is so intuitive you can do most of it without ever looking at the book. I think I used it a week before I bothered opening the instruction manual.

I agree with all of this 100%.

I've bought and tried a few other programs after seeing them on TV, and thought how much nicer they look on the show I was watching. Unfortunatley, I lost interest in them in a very short amount of time trying to figure them out. Broaderbund is just very simple to learn how to use by just playing around with with the different features. It came with a big book on how to do everything, but I've only opened it a few times, and don't have a clue where it is anymore.

I forgot about using graph paper, which is kind of funny because I tell my clients to do this all the time.

Eddie

 

[Steve C]

I agree with all of this 100%.

I've bought and tried a few other programs after seeing them on TV, and thought how much nicer they look on the show I was watching. Unfortunatley, I lost interest in them in a very short amount of time trying to figure them out. Broaderbund is just very simple to learn how to use by just playing around with with the different features. It came with a big book on how to do everything, but I've only opened it a few times, and don't have a clue where it is anymore.

I forgot about using graph paper, which is kind of funny because I tell my clients to do this all the time.

Eddie

Eddie I feel exactly the same way.

I earned my living running cadd software for 20+ years. I can make some pretty fancy drawings using very expensive programs.

I have never shown this program to anybody who wasn't totally blown away by its ease of use.

I just can't say enough good things about it.

There are programs with more features but they come with a level of complication that I don't want to deal with.

The Broaderbund 3-D home Architect does exactly what I need the program to do. It creats 3-D models faster than anything I haver ever used and it has a good selection of furniture and fixtures that can be easily resized to the exact dimensions of your own furniture and appliances. It is probably the most satisfying software purchase I have ever made.

 

[dieselsmoke1]

I used Sketchup for my garage and was well pleased with the results. Made lots of changes and a few mistakes during the design phase that would have been hard to fix in real life. Most all framing sizing including the rafter cuts and ridge supports worked out dang near spot on.

 

[Iplayfarmer]

I have tried sketchup.

I just don't get along with it very well.

I've heard that from others who are familiar with old CAD programs. I don't know if sketchup will ever be able to compete with a purpose built program used for the purpose it was built.

I tried learning a few CAD programs before I found sketchup. I'm the novice newby trying to get by with what I can beg, steal, or borrow. For me sketchup was the first thing I found that I could learn without some kind of class.

Everyone will find what works best for them. I like sketchup for my purposes because I can use it for a bunch of different stuff. I've used it to visualize manufacturing production line layout, design tractor implements, build a floor plan for our home remodel, design a workshop addition to my garage, figure out pallet stacking patterns, and to design cabinets and other woodworking projects. I'm sure that each one of those tasks has a standalone program that would be better suited to the purpose, but sketchup does them pretty well, and I only had to learn it once.

 

[Workstead]

Well, all of this input certainly will make my decision easy

I do appreciate your input and I see the validity and logic of what works best for you.

I remember when I first got a check writing/register program so I could keep my records on the computer. The checks were really expensive, it took at least twice as long to make monthly payments and record them. Needless to say I no longer do that.

Simple is better so I will move to a simple solution. (Yeah right.)

Clem