Shallow well pump selection

[southerniltractor]

Howdy folks,

We've got a 25 foot (to the bottom) well we need to get functional on our rural property. The hole is about 4 feet in diameter and it is lined with brick. There is about 4 feet of water in the well. The plan is to install a pump and use this water for whatever is appropriate based on testing after the water has been cycled and perhaps chlorinated. We will also install a manual hand pump. If it turns out to be potable, we'll water the chickens, the garden and let this water source be our backup to the city water currently plumbed to the house. It not, it will be used to wash equipment and whatnot.

The question is what pump would work best? A shallow well (jet) pump seems like the answer, but I dislike having a well house to shelter the pump and tank. I don't know if a submersible would work in this application.

I have considered using a shallow well pump and pressure tank mounted inside the well on a platform. This would provide a space that shouldn't freeze and gets the machinery out of sight. My concern with this plan is dampness degrading the pump and tank over time.

I look forward to your thoughts!

Thanks,
Mike

 

[Oaktree]

Is this something that would be used year round, or just when needed? If the latter, maybe a portable pump that can be hooked up when you need water then disconnected. A platform inside the well sounds like it would be cumbersome to install/service. If you're going to need it year round sounds like a wellhouse is the way to go.

A submersible might work providing the water level stays relatively consistent, but I'd imagine it would destroy itself pretty quickly if the water in the well dropped below the intake.

 

[ponytug]

This isn't exactly what you asked, but many municipalities have regulations on the use of wells for those on city water, and what you may use your well for, if at all, may be tightly regulated. You might want to check before getting too far into the project.

To your question: I have seen other folks put a pump on a platform in an old well, though not the pressure tank which is a lot of weight.

If you don't know what you are going to use it for, I would buy a cheap submersible pump, pump out the well for a bit and get it tested before doing much else. Once you know what the water quality is like, then you can go from there.

All the best,

Peter

 

[3Ts]

Check the suction lift limit on the shallow well pump you select. The theoretical lift limit is one atmosphere (when converted to feet is about 32'). Then you have to subtract friction losses and inefficiencies which puts the practical limit around the 20 to 25 foot depth. A submersible would probably be best for you. You can put a limit switch in to prevent the pump running without water.

I have a 4" diameter submersible pump that lifts the water 250' and still has 40 psi at the top. The pumps are much better at pushing the water than pulling it up.

 

[lman]

This isn't exactly what you asked, but many municipalities have regulations on the use of wells for those on city water, and what you may use your well for, if at all, may be tightly regulated. You might want to check before getting too far into the project.

To your question: I have seen other folks put a pump on a platform in an old well, though not the pressure tank which is a lot of weight.

If you don't know what you are going to use it for, I would buy a cheap submersible pump, pump out the well for a bit and get it tested before doing much else. Once you know what the water quality is like, then you can go from there.

All the best,

Peter

It doesn't sound like he lives in a municipality. Around here, if you have 38 acres, you're not subject to municipality codes.

 

[ponytug]

It doesn't sound like he lives in a municipality. Around here, if you have 38 acres, you're not subject to municipality codes.

He said he has city water plumbed to the house...

 

[the old grind]

Most codes don't allow physically connecting of wells to any municipal supply, for backup or otherwise. I have a good 3/4 hp shallow well pump for a crock well next to 4 ac pond. Pump is <10' above ground water. Performance leaves much to be desired, as in tough to maintain flow & 'siphoning presssure' in a hose-end sprayer. (Chameleon, etc) A submersible pump may want to be sleeved for proper cooling flow but is all I'd consider if water quality tests ok. Volume-wise a 4' dia well may take as lomg to draw down as a 6" one much deeper, so there's that. YMMV but all wells need a few tests.

 

[Egon]

Use a sump pump to clean up the well and maybe determine the recharge rate. After the water tests get serious about the pump you need.

 

[Valveman]

At that depth use a Hallmark, 1HP, 33 GPM pump. They are inexpensive and seem to be lasting pretty well. You can even lay it on its side if the water level is less than 5' or so and can't stand it up.

 

[nyone]

For infrequent use and not mission Critical get a a cheap submersible 120v well pump. There about $140.

 

[southerniltractor]

Great responses folks! I really appreciate all of the input.

I do have city water to the house, but this well will not be connected into my home plumbing. I'll run water to the chicken coup and where we may end up raising beef. Also, will put a hydrant next to the machine shed for cleaning equipment and vehicles. Hopefully, this water will be potable and in a pinch, we'll have water for consumption if the city water poops out.

Today I'm heading out to find my old sump pump and get that water out of the well. I'll observe the well to determine the recovery rate and then make a decision on what pump to install. So far, I'm really liking the pump idea presented by Valveman. That may just be the ticket! I'll post a few photos later today so you can visualize better what I'm doing.

Be well,
Mike

 

[ponytug]

Great responses folks! I really appreciate all of the input.

I do have city water to the house, but this well will not be connected into my home plumbing. I'll run water to the chicken coup and where we may end up raising beef. Also, will put a hydrant next to the machine shed for cleaning equipment and vehicles. Hopefully, this water will be potable and in a pinch, we'll have water for consumption if the city water poops out.

Today I'm heading out to find my old sump pump and get that water out of the well. I'll observe the well to determine the recovery rate and then make a decision on what pump to install. So far, I'm really liking the pump idea presented by Valveman. That may just be the ticket! I'll post a few photos later today so you can visualize better what I'm doing.

Be well,
Mike

Before buying a sump pump, check the lift height. Many top out in the 20' lift range, and that is often zero flow at 20', e.g. this one from Wayne Pumps;
https://www.waynepumps.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/flow-chart.png

All the best,

Peter

 

[southerniltractor]

Howdy again,

I found my 25 year old sump pump (saved from home renovation) in the shed and gave it a test in a bucket of water. It worked well in that bucket, so I devised a plan to lower the pump into the well while attaching successive lengths of PVC pipe. With the help of my family and the cat, we got the pump into the water and turned it on. Worked well for a bit, then water started squirting out the bottom of the pump (it appeared from my view). Pulled it out and determined there was a screw missing from the bottom plate of the pump and discovered a hole in the first length of plastic pipe that was resident on the pump when I found it. I found a screw for the bottom plate of the pup and replaced that short piece of pipe. Heading out shortly to give it another whirl.

Also, memory is a funny thing. When I installed the handpump about 8 years ago, I SWORE the depth to the bottom was 25 feet. As you can see in the photos, the depth is only 23 feet to the bottom of the concrete cap. That time 8 years ago may have been a dry summer, as there is clearly more than 4 feet of water in the well! Or perhaps this number was based on my impeccable memory of that time too? Today it is only about 8 feet from the concrete cap to the water's surface. That gives me about 15 feet of depth in that well! This getting older thing is quite humbling.

Based on the amount of water in the well, a submersible may just be the ticket. I'll get it pumped out today and observe the recovery time. Also, will get that new water tested ASAP. Do I need a pressure tank for a submersible pump?

Some photos are attached to illustrate what I'm doing.

Just searched for "hole in sump pump pipe" and found a thing called a weep hole. Sounds like that I need to leave that pipe with hole on the pump?!

 

[the old grind]

At that depth you would/will be disappointed with a sump or shallow well pump. With a submersible the higher capacity may overdraw the well according to time drawing. A self-priming sprinkler pump set just above the highest water level might sufice. Be sure to select TEFC vs ODP motor.

Wayne 1 HP Stainless Steel Portable Sprinkler Pump PLS100 - The Home Depot

The Wayne 1 HP Stainless Steel Portable Sprinkler Pump is designed with a safe on and off switch. This features a fan-cooled motor for continuous operation. It comes with a convenient carry handle for

www.homedepot.com

 

[fried1765]

At that depth use a Hallmark, 1HP, 33 GPM pump. They are inexpensive and seem to be lasting pretty well. You can even lay it on its side if the water level is less than 5' or so and can't stand it up.
View attachment 709019

That seems like an excellent idea!

 

[southerniltractor]

My trusty sump pump pooped out before we hit the bottom of the well, but we did get the water down to 15 feet, 4 inches. We started with the surface of the water at 8 feet, three inches. Now let me see, 4 foot in diameter with a change of 7 feet, one inch gives me 658 gallons in about 2 hours.

Gonna eat dinner and recheck the numbers. Maybe I need to remeasure the diameter of the well. That one thing I didn't take a photo of my tape measure on.

 

[the old grind]

Wait, water level that high before drawing down? Forget anything I said. (.. and after water test anyway) See post #9.

 

[southerniltractor]

Wait, I remeasured my diameter of the well. it is only 31 inches in diameter, not 48! Imagine the fish I've told stories about? Okay, that means a recovery rate of 274 gallons in about 2 hours. Is that a good number?

 

[fried1765]

Wait, I remeasured my diameter of the well. it is only 31 inches in diameter, not 48! Imagine the fish I've told stories about? Okay, that means a recovery rate of 274 gallons in about 2 hours. Is that a good number?

2.3 GPM.......it ain't great, but it is what you have got, and depending on the cu.ft. of stored water in the well it may work for you.

 

[the old grind]

Sensors & 'signal' LEDs might be added (& weather-proof) above the well to indicate by color high & low levels as/when in use. 120v or 240v pump considered? 240v should be easily tapped for low amp 120v w/o interfering with pump performance. (a few watts at most)

btw, I suggest drawing the well down several times and having it re-tested. Can't help but think that continuous inflow (vs old/stale) will give the truest test of potential potability vs chemical/mineral excess once put into regular service.