shooterdon
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Sea Foam
- Thread starter eddieirvine
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atsah
Elite Member
They claim that it October they mix "winter" fuel so that the fuel wont gel. The first winter I was here in 2005 I was moving snow at 5F, I got to the end of my driveway and the tractor would only idle, the fuel filter was wrecked, it gelled up, from that point on I added Lucus to my fuel, never happened again and I have used the tractor down to -20F moving snow banks.. As I have said I'm not an additive guy but antigel is needed is "some" parts of the country in the winter..
Gale Hawkins
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Eddie I have used a lot of Sea Foam over the past 10 years. I have used it in the fuel of 4 old school diesel tractors and other to make them smoke a bit I have not realized any increased performance personally.
I use it sometimes in all kinds of crank cases especially getting used stuff with dirty crankcases maybe 30 minutes before changing the engine oil but I do not work them hard because in some cases I have seen a drop in oil pressure. Because it is cheaper and designed to be run full time up to a ratio of 20% in engines I will dump in a quart of Marvel Mystery Oil (MMO) like 30 minutes before I shut down for an oil change.
For the fuel in gas engines I have found SeaFoam to be a great performance aid over the years.
My most awesome Sea Foam results comes with cleaning up of automatic transmission valve bodies/servos. I like to run it 200-300 miles then remove most of the ATF by letting the transmission pump out the old ATF through the exit line going to the transmission cooler. That is called a 'bucket flush' and is done in the driveway often if you want to read up on that but beware of everything you read or hear.
Since I started to use Archoil AR9100 in all of our engines they are self flushing for the most part it seems after a few oil changes. Last year I started testing in differentials and automatic transmissions. I have about 15K on the 4 speed automatic in the 2010 Subaru Forester and about a 1000 miles on the 2010 Ford F150 with the 205K mile 6R80 transmission and so far so good. I use it at the rate on the container label of the gallon jugs that I buy since we run through a lot of it each year.
While Archoil makes additives for diesel fuel that gets high marks the AR9100 is designed to be used in oils NOT fuel. My early reading on Archoil was about its use in million dollar equipment for the engines and gear boxes and transmissions.
Again I have not seen any performance gains in diesel engines using SeaFoam but it is an awesome cleaner gas fuel systems in my experience. Some diesel owners fill new fuel filters with Sea Foam hoping to clean injectors I have read but none of our diesels have fuel filters that can be prefilled very well.
Get on some of the pick up truck diesel forms because some are performance minded.
Fallon
Super Member
#1 diesel is closer to kerosene than #2. It gells at a lower tempature. #1 has more power & lubrication as some compounds havent been filtered or distilled out yet.
Generally you want #2 for most purposes, unless you need cold weather performance of #1.
Personally I wait until fall to get my 300 gallon tank filled. Should be a winter blend at that point (some #1 mixed into the #2). But I still add in Piwer Service white bottle. It ends up being under a penny per gallon, which I consider very cheap insurance for lubrication & not having to walk home in the cold.
Generally you want #2 for most purposes, unless you need cold weather performance of #1.
Personally I wait until fall to get my 300 gallon tank filled. Should be a winter blend at that point (some #1 mixed into the #2). But I still add in Piwer Service white bottle. It ends up being under a penny per gallon, which I consider very cheap insurance for lubrication & not having to walk home in the cold.
JWR
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Many things are not possible, me being an engineer and all ! Ask my wife !! I have to totally disagree atsah. (There have been many threads on this issue.) No matter where you live and no matter what my background is, a 50/50 mix of #1 and #2 diesel fuel will cure any potential gelling problems you may have without use of additives. That method is used more than any other to prevent fuel from gelling. I learned it from dozer operators in northern Vermont. Ask your own local heavy equipment operators.
In the event that neither they nor I can "get it across to you," see Cold Weather Fuel Issues: The Safe Answer is Gelling | Fleet Owner where it says:
All of this can be attributed to poor maintenance ... as well as a poor understanding of fuel and poor communication with your fuel supplier. Some believe everything can be solved with pour depressants and additives. But actually there is a point you need kerosene. And if you are buying fuel at a truck stop, it may be treated with additives, but in most cases not blended. Kerosene is expensive and most truck stops choose not to blend because fleets do not want to pay for gel insurance.
People way up in the northern US and Canada do not have any issues with fuel. They have figured our how to maintain their fuel below ground, above ground and most important on the ground. And you will see plenty of signs for KERO. What a surprise.
...
Most reports I have seen show that a 50/50 mix of #1 and #2 yield a gel point around 36 below zero F. Roughly the same as your antifreeze mix in the radiator. That sets a practical lower temp limit that will make you forget gelling.
I will grant you that using additives can be of value. It is absolutely NOT required.
JWR
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Fallon -- I agree and your "annual business plan for fuel" makes good sense, obviously arrived at thru the school of hard knocks and experience. I'm sure you meant to say " #2 has more power and lubrication ..." rather than #1. I'm reasonably sure that #1 diesel is not just closer to, but really is, the same thing as kerosene.
atsah
Elite Member
Some do use kerosene but most don't around here, my brother IS a heavy equipment operator and they use power service.. I'm not going to argue with you, we use what we use were I live. This debate had been debated to death many times. People use different things that make sense financially for them..
The bottom line is there are 2 options to fight cold weather. You can either use blended fuel (either blended by the supplier or by you), or you can add additional additives (either treated by the supplier or by you). The advantage of the additive option is that you don't need to have both fuel types on hand. With additives you can have a very small amount on hand to dose large quantities of fuel. Also, when you buy blended or treated fuel from the supplier, they are mixing it according to that months predicted weather. If you buy it in November, it might not be blended or treated to handle the much lower temps in Feb.
atsah
Elite Member
They blend the same here from October straight through March, agreed on the rest of your post..
oldballs
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Around my part of the country, I'll be darned if any station attendant knows what and when their diesel fuel is #1 or #2. So, I put PS in every 5 gallon jug summer or winter. Around here the temp can go down below zero in the winter....maybe as much as -20 deg F. One just never knows what to expect around here for snow or for low temperatures.
Cheers,
Mike
Cheers,
Mike
Since there are no federal regs regarding winter diesel, it's up to the seller (unless you have state regs) and they keep the blend/treatment to prevent waxing to "x degrees below the normal temperature for that month". I know here, it's difficult to get a straight answer when asked how/when they treat. For the most part there is no issue with a sliding scale through the winter to match temps since diesel is used as it is bought for use in trucks. Storing it for occasional winter tractor use raises the risk for me so I treat on my own. :thumbsup:
atsah
Elite Member
They don't do a very good of it here that's for sure.. It's pretty easy for me to go to wally world and buy enough additive for the year for $12.00..
JWR
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Yeah, I think the last 5 or 6 posts point out that, in effect, what you need to do/best to do depends on a bunch of things -- how much you use, how often you get refilled by the supplier, how cold it gets or is predicted to get at your location, etc.
Like Ford850 said, I have never been able to get a 100% believable answer from a filling station or other fuel source.
In diesel engined cars I have filled up with #2 in the Wash DC area, driven into the mountains and had the thing gel on me on a mountain top around midnight that night in late December. Also plugged in the car engine heater in Troy VT, slept soundly and got up next morn with 10 below zero OAT. Started right up and went about 1/4 mile when it died with gel. That's where the locals educated me on the 50/50 mix with kerosene.
As I think atsah said, you do what works best in your circumstances.
Like Ford850 said, I have never been able to get a 100% believable answer from a filling station or other fuel source.
In diesel engined cars I have filled up with #2 in the Wash DC area, driven into the mountains and had the thing gel on me on a mountain top around midnight that night in late December. Also plugged in the car engine heater in Troy VT, slept soundly and got up next morn with 10 below zero OAT. Started right up and went about 1/4 mile when it died with gel. That's where the locals educated me on the 50/50 mix with kerosene.
As I think atsah said, you do what works best in your circumstances.
Sawyer Rob
Super Member
Really? How cold does it get there? Colder than Alaska??
I was in -62F in Alaska without snake oil and my diesel ran just fine, of course, I was running #1 diesel fuel in it.
SR
atsah
Elite Member
That’s great, glad you got through it and was able to make it back.. That’s super duper.. I think we figured out how to not gel up, back to seafoam..
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Sawyer Rob
Super Member
Make it back?? I lived there 25 years and owned diesels THERE from 1982 on, until I left...
SR
atsah
Elite Member
Okay so you never had a gelling issue in 25 years even at -62 just using #1, I think we got it.. I'm sure they cut the fuel in half in AK..
JWR
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Hey guys -- to the extent we want this dead horse beaten some more, there is a very interesting wealth of info at Winter diesel fuel - Wikipedia which contrasts regulations in many countries, lists the "Cold Filter Plugging Point" CFPP determined by standardized tests, etc. Pretty educational.
Sawyer Rob
Super Member
THAT'S what you got out of MY post?? I guess YOU didn't get it!
What you SHOULD have got is, I don't believe you that you HAVE to run snake oil in the cold! AND I also don't believe YOU "have to" use snake oil where YOU live because of the cold!
There ya go, I spelled it out for you... lol
SR
atsah
Elite Member
PERFECT.. That clears it up for me, YOU DON"T need to explain further, I'm sure YOU have other things to do today..
