Sanity Check - Kioti

[borderm3]

Hi all,

I have been reading here for a little while, first time posting. I purchased a ~2.5 acre foreclosure that sets on a grade that is roughly 4 time deep as it is wide. The deep runs along the grade, e.g. I drive up my driveway to the front of my house. I have a blacktop driveway thats fairly steep, thus far I have been plowing and salting it in the winter with a Yamaha Wolverine side by side that I bought in hopes to do estate maintenance work and have some fun with. Two years later, it's depreciating like crazy and I have only used it for plowing and salting. I am looking to sell it and purchase a tractor to take care of bunch of things around the place. I need to dig a rather large (to me) retaining wall, about 5 foot high and 100-150 feet wide, plow snow, remove some tree stumps, dig drainage, dig a 10' x 8' x 8' area, grade where the retaining wall is, and perhaps clear out some wooded area to prepare a foundation for a garage at some point (wishful thinking).

I am looking at the following machines all with the loader and backhoe, below are the prices I got over the phone, without any negotiations:
Loader and Tractor

• CK2610hst 18,400
• CK3510se 22,100
• CK4010hst 22,500

Backhoe is 7,500

1. All these machines have the same GPM hydraulics, will I notice any difference in digging between them? It seems like the more powerful tractors have more responsive hydraulics, but maybe this is just in my head.
3. Will I kick myself in the butt if I don't get a factory cab? The dealer installed cabs don't look like they are NOT built as well, does anyone have any input on this? I live in central PA and it gets cold here.
5. If I find a few years down the road, I no longer need the tractor, will any one of these be likely to have better resale? I'm being told the bigger tractors have better resale.

Am I crazy for wanting to buy one? Being completely honest, part of it is the fun factor.

Thanks so much for everyone's help

 

[BoylermanCT]

All 3 are from the same series tractor, CK10, and all weigh the same with the same general dimensions. Seems like you are getting more HP as you move up models, but is anything else different? Do they have the same loaders? Any difference in lift capacity?

I am a fan of hydrostatic transmissions, especially for loader work and plowing or snowblowing. So I would forget the CK3510SE. They do sell a CK3510HST.

If you have the money, get the 40HP. You won't regret it. If you want to save $4K, the 26HP should do everything you want to do with it. I have a 28hp and have never wished I had more HP. But more HP will let you do the work in less time.

Let us know what you decide. Good luck!

 

[prof fate]

Above is correct.

Teh SE has more options - tilt wheel, horn, floor mat, telescoping 3 pt arms, cruise, link pedal. I got a 'plain' ck3510 hst and added floor mat, link, cruise, horn, loaded tires, 2 rear remotes all for 695, total was just over 20k last june (before financing and insurance.) 40hp would have been nice but 5hp...?

I was quoted $7500 for the hoe. You'll need that with your list of projects.

Cab..5k or so, includes heat and a/c, lighting.

I'm in western pa on a horse farm - gotta hay and plow snow too.I've got to dress warm to be outside anyway...don't see the merit of a cab for snow plowing for an hour here and there 5 times a winter..

My main use has been loader work, dirt moving (box blade, back blade) and brush hogging 20 acres once a month. Got a 3pt finish mower to add 2 acres to that this year. A cab for the brush hogging would be nice - cooler and cleaner, quieter. But most of the time I do it in the evening..so not so hot and sunny anyway.

I'm on/off the tractor a LOT - gates to pastures, changing implements or settings on them, etc. A door on a cab would be one more thing to deal with.

Extra HP is handy for hills and PTO work - bigger mower or tiller mainly. Most are 1' per 5hp - so a 25hp tractor will have 20hp at the PTO, 4' implement. 35hp has 30 at the PTO, so 6', and 40 will be 35, so 7'.

Resale...they're all about the same in 10 or 15 years if in good condition. And they all lose 10-20% as soon as they go from new to used - as a buyer I want a discount for buying used, a dealer can't sell used for as much as new so has to pay lower yet on a trade in. Can't say any brand holds up better than another, and some cost several grand more up front for no more usefulness or reliability.

 

[rScotty]

Hi all,

I need to dig a rather large (to me) retaining wall, about 5 foot high and 100-150 feet wide, plow snow, remove some tree stumps, dig drainage, dig a 10' x 8' x 8' area, grade where the retaining wall is, and perhaps clear out some wooded area to prepare a foundation for a garage at some point (wishful thinking).


Am I crazy for wanting to buy one? Being completely honest, part of it is the fun factor.

Thanks so much for everyone's help

Yes, you have that right. A large part of the compact tractor popularity is simply the fun factor.
It's a neat hobby as well as a way to get things done....and more healthy exercise than you might think at first.
You will maximize all those benefits with the right machine.

Looking at your projects the big thing that jumps out is the quantity of dirt to be moved, and also the slope. Slope is particularly important in compact tractors.

If it were my choice, I'd at least take a look at Kubota's purpose built compact TLB Line. For new ones, that would be the B26, L47, and M62. I'd say that the best buy right now is on low hour used L39s. Some have aftermarket cabs. I see at least one L39 with 600 hrs for sale online with a nice cab.

Compared with compact tractors, compact TLBs are built heavier, have a lower center of gravity, more of that important slope stability, stronger loader & hydraulics. They are made more for working dirt and rock than for pulling agriculature implements. However, the biggest immediate difference you will notice between TLBs (Tractor/Loader/Backhoes) versusTractors is that TLBs are made so that the backhoe is primary to the tractor and it is detatched to mount the 3pt hitch. On Tractors, the 3pt hitch is the dominant attachment and the backhoe attaches either to it or in place of it.

The only downside is that compact TLBs tend to cost more than compact tractors - although not by so much when you add up all the options to make a tractor do the same work. To compensate, resale also tends to be higher for TLBs.

Not saying you should go that way; though we did and like what we got. But you might check them out just to know what is available. Or rent one for a week...... That's a real good test and lots of rental yards have L39s. I think it is a shame that only Kubota makes compact TLBs. Would love to see some competition.
good luck,
rScotty

 

[fried1765]

Hi all,

I have been reading here for a little while, first time posting. I purchased a ~2.5 acre foreclosure that sets on a grade that is roughly 4 time deep as it is wide. The deep runs along the grade, e.g. I drive up my driveway to the front of my house. I have a blacktop driveway thats fairly steep, thus far I have been plowing and salting it in the winter with a Yamaha Wolverine side by side that I bought in hopes to do estate maintenance work and have some fun with. Two years later, it's depreciating like crazy and I have only used it for plowing and salting. I am looking to sell it and purchase a tractor to take care of bunch of things around the place. I need to dig a rather large (to me) retaining wall, about 5 foot high and 100-150 feet wide, plow snow, remove some tree stumps, dig drainage, dig a 10' x 8' x 8' area, grade where the retaining wall is, and perhaps clear out some wooded area to prepare a foundation for a garage at some point (wishful thinking).

I am looking at the following machines all with the loader and backhoe, below are the prices I got over the phone, without any negotiations:
Loader and Tractor

• CK2610hst 18,400
• CK3510se 22,100
• CK4010hst 22,500
• Backhoe 7,500

1. All these machines have the same GPM hydraulics, will I notice any difference in digging between them? It seems like the more powerful tractors have more responsive hydraulics, but maybe this is just in my head.
3. Will I kick myself in the butt if I don't get a factory cab? The dealer installed cabs don't look like they are NOT built as well, does anyone have any input on this? I live in central PA and it gets cold here.
5. If I find a few years down the road, I no longer need the tractor, will any one of these be likely to have better resale? I'm being told the bigger tractors have better resale.

Am I crazy for wanting to buy one? Being completely honest, part of it is the fun factor.

Thanks so much for everyone's help

Suggest you enter your general location in your profile.
Someone here may be able to comment on a particularly good (or bad) dealer in your local area, wherever that may be..

 

[MaineGuy1]

I have a Kubota with no cab, it was cold in the winter but I dressed for it. I just purchased a cabbed tractor and now move snow at 10 below with just a T shirt. It is also nice to listen to music while I perform snow removal activities. The Ck3510se HC on Tractorhouse goes for 28,700 with no backhoe. A cab adds about 5k to the price. I have friends with dealers installed cabs and they are not as nice as the OEM cabs.

 

[cphilip]

The 2610 has no EPA regeneration emissions related stuff... the rest of those models you listed do.

 

[LS Tractor Owner]

If you can get the CK2610 WITH THE BACKHOE for $18,400, as you stated, BUY IT !
I just saw the lowest price for one with a backhoe is at $24,700. I think all those prices are without a hoe.

 

[LS Tractor Owner]

Sorry, my bad reading... First you said "all with loader and backhoe", but then said "tractor and loader"

 

[chim]

What part of PA are you in? I don't know much about Kioti tractors but they do have a devoted following. I shopped for used tractors in late 2018 and looked at a Kioti. It was a nice tractor, but wasn't in great shape. It was a brand I've considered when shopping the past two times.

I would say that a factory cab really gets the edge in my opinion because of the factory A/C. I built a cab for a Kubota and it has been great in the cold weather. In hot weather I can lift the doors off and it's better than baking in the sun. We recently bought a used Kubota with a factory cab and it's been wonderful. I'm looking forward to being out of the dust and pollen the RFM can kick up.

 

[borderm3]

Interesting!!!! So the B26TLB is 36,500. So I will have to do some comparisons between the 3510se with loader and back hoe at $29,600 and the B26TLB at $36,500. Do you expect the B26TLB will have better resale in 3 years than the 3510se?

Thanks!!!

 

[borderm3]

Thanks for all the replies guys. I just added my location to my profile.

 

[borderm3]

Can anyone comment how much better the digging will be with the B26TLB vs the CK3510SE?

 

[PEJ5]

It sounds like you have already decided.. hehe. The Kioti CK series has high resale value, especially with a backhoe, but I doubt you'll ever sell it. Due to the slope I'd eliminate the 2610. Is the 3510SE price HST or geared? The CK geared model is not fully synchronized so go with HST over SE features - both if you can.

Since you are not mowing 10 acres for hours at a time the cab is less critical and they say it"s difficult in the woods, always watching for branches that will break a $300 window. You imply a big garage is not in the cards soon so maybe the cab money could be better used to build a roofed shelter for the tractor.

 

[borderm3]

Peter,

The 3510SE is HST. Thanks man!

Chris

 

[rScotty]

Interesting!!!! So the B26TLB is 36,500. So I will have to do some comparisons between the 3510se with loader and back hoe at $29,600 and the B26TLB at $36,500. Do you expect the B26TLB will have better resale in 3 years than the 3510se?
Thanks!!!

Who knows? I'm pleasantly surprised that you can buy a new compact TLB for that close to the price of a new compact ag tractor with attachments. So that's a positive both ways ......

On resale of one versus the other, we know that the B26 seems to keep a high percentage of value, being a popular model that has been produced for over a decade. There are lots of them out there, and a lot has been written on them in TBN. So it's a known product with a known resale. The Kioti is newer so not as much info - but there should be some. I personally like the Kiotis I've seen and think the brand has a good future; I wish they made a TLB type. On the other hand, the Kubota does, and it is proven now.

I'm guessing you already know how to compare the used value of tractors online. Perhaps you've already done so. If so, what did you find? I'm curious.

Alternately you could start a thread asking that same question on the Kioti and/or Kubota forums right here on TBN. You might as well use the forum format to its max. If one person has a question there are a number of people who have thought about similar things.

Opinions being cheaper than experience, none of the above is going to tell you nearly as much as simply renting one of something for a weekend will do.
Renting is cheap education AND you get to see how it will actually do at your intended job. And as a bonus, some of the job gets done while you are playing.

For example, I found out that for one job I really liked a cab, but another job that same afternoon required constantly getting on and off the tractor in close quarters & the cab was a detriment. That caused me me enough to think things through differently and would ultimately change my mind about what to buy. My wife's insight came in handy too.
rScotty

 

[nards444]

I quoted the 2510 and 3510. 3510 comes with a factory cab with heat and AC. The 2510 can be ordered with a factory cab but is dealer installed. When I quoted tractors I had a cab, front blower and loader. 2510 was 26k, 3510 was 32k, the comparable Kubota 2650 was 32 locally, all without taxes.

Keep in mind the 2510 even with cab was heat only no AC 3510 had both.

TBH that back hoe attachment is pricey, if I were buying one it would be something I would have to use all the of the time. Might be better of renting the attachment or even an EX for the weekend. Attachments are great, and all but you can usually rent them for a few hundred bucks to a thousand for a week. So for a hoe, you would have to use it for 7-8 weeks just to break even on the initial purchase.

 

[ericm979]

Look into the permitting requirements for that retaining wall. It may need to be engineered and have a foundation. In that case you should leave the excavation to pros.

If you have just the one big retaining wall job it's probably better to just hire it done. The contractor will have bigger equipement than you'd be buying. And they'll have years of experience on that equipement. I just got a backhoe for my tractor and even though I am mechanically inclined it's not easy to operate. You'll be a lot slower and less accurate than someone who has been doing it 8 hours a day for years.

 

[prof fate]

Interesting!!!! So the B26TLB is 36,500. So I will have to do some comparisons between the 3510se with loader and back hoe at $29,600 and the B26TLB at $36,500. Do you expect the B26TLB will have better resale in 3 years than the 3510se?

Thanks!!!

resale by what measure?

If both lose 50% you lose more on the kubota. (18250 vs 14,800)

If the kubota has 20% higher resale value (unlikely IMO that it would be that much) then on the kioti you lose 14,800 and kubota you'd lose 14,600 - a wash really.

And you'd have more money tied up now for hte kubota - higher payment, more credit used up, etc.

 

[nards444]

resale by what measure?

If both lose 50% you lose more on the kubota. (18250 vs 14,800)

If the kubota has 20% higher resale value (unlikely IMO that it would be that much) then on the kioti you lose 14,800 and kubota you'd lose 14,600 - a wash really.

And you'd have more money tied up now for hte kubota - higher payment, more credit used up, etc.

Good point I always get a chuckle on the resale portion, while its a consideration its a smoke and mirrors sales tactic. Like you said you can pay 30% more for brand X then brand Y, but brand X will only bring you 20% upon resale so you lost 10%. End of the day paint color may add to sell-ability which is worth something, but sell-ability and resale value are two different things. If you look at 5-10-15 years down the road at selling, sell-ability could be different but dont think youll be selling brand x for any more than brand y and least in comparing it to relative purchase price.

Another thing is people get to wrapped up into re-sale for a home purchase or private use, unless your running a business where depreciation, equipment maint, assets all play a part. For private use its way over thinking. While nobody wants to buy a 30k machine and have it worth 5k in two years, but in reality it doesn't matter. You buy that 30k machine, you ran it you maintained it, those are all sunk cost that you will never get back, you just wont. Its not going to matter 10 years down the line that you got 2k more in resale with one brand vs the next, as you lost money on it anyways, but even that doesnt matter as you bought machine to accomplish a task and it did it.