Rural Living??

[cowboydoc]

Wingnut,
I wouldn't say we're on opposite sides of the fence at all. I agree with everything that you've said. We respected the coyotes as well and never went after them until they got to be too big in numbers and ran out of varmits to eat and went after the livestock. Shoot I raised three coyote pups when I was a kid. I absolutey positively don't agree with subsidized farming at all!!! The problem is the government has created the markets, etc. and allowed there to be a virtual monopoly of markets or I should say market for crops and livestock. There are only a couple main players anymore in the crop and livestock business. Anyway I'd say we're on the same page.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Hi Richard,

I'm just not sure who you're "swingin'-at" here;

[[[...it's not ok to talk about controlling an out of control population of an animal, insect, weed, etc?]]]

Who said that? Where is it?
I missed it!

All my admittedly-too-long posting was in opposition to killing when the ONLY point was "fun"! (or other consequences weren't considered, ...i.e., caterpiller=butterfly)
Didn't I make that clear?

I feel like you are responding to the anti-hunting, kill-nothing group, ... but I haven't really seen any of them HERE! (??)

I'm going incognito for a while . Got to do some "tractor" stuff /w3tcompact/icons/cool.gif .

See you later,

Larry

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Re: Rural Living?? Correction!

Correction! :

Richard, I mistakenly attributed the following quote to you , when referring to our use of "worst-case" examples.

It was actually written by Von. I apologise for mis-remembering! /w3tcompact/icons/blush.gif

[[[All I have to say is "WELL SAID" I think you speak for alot of us! I hear people moan about the deer hunters, and then are the first ones to say shoot them all after they hit one with the car!]]]

Sorry about that,
Larry

 

[cowboydoc]

Larry,
It seems maybe we have both misunderstood what the other person was trying to say. It seems that we are kinda on the same page about some things and that's good enough for me. Just a few things to clear up though. One is that the image of a cowboy riding hell bent for leather across the land is a false one! No true cowboy would be dumb enough to do that intentionally. My brother was hurt when he was at an extended trot on his horse heading home and his horse fell in a hole, most of these holes you can't see until you are right on top of them, and the horse went forward and he hit his head on a rock. My great uncle was killed when he was just walking a horse and they went across where a bunch of praire dogs were and the entire area collapsed. His horse fell on top of him and the horn came down on his chest breaking it. The example you gave was a little out of context. I understand the point but that's not the way things happen.

The other point is that the government gives you free land!!! Do you realize that that land is ONLY leased and that you have to run a certain amount of stock on that land at a certain per head price? By no means is the land free. In addition you have to maintain the land, reseed it, provide wells for water, etc. all at your own expense. You want to talk about free. Free is the IPSCO steel plant that went in by my house. The government gave them a 30 million dollar interest free loan for 12 years. They don't have to pay any taxes for 12 years. The government and power station put in new roads, power, etc. Nevermind that there was a steel mill 15 miles down the road that had been an integral part of the community for 45 years. There is government intervention and corruption at all levels and at all levels there is free money that you and I pay for.

Lastly I did not mean that you specifically would protect mice, rats, insects, etc. I was just making a point that you can't condemn one thing and not everything. NOT specifically you but that is what I see all the time with the "environmentalists" is that they want to punish someone else or their way of life while their own life is full of the same things.

Anyway I'm sure enough has been said. I did not mean to offend you in any way. Just that this is my families way of life and has been for generations and they have to fight these battles everyday from people who really don't know or have some sort of opinion as to what something should be about a way of life they have never seen.

I'm getting tired of being blamed for all of lifes problems, as I know others are, just because you hunt or make a living off the land. Not that you meant to do that but there are many that do.

But you're right this is getting too weighty and heated for the "good nature" here. I agree with you 100% there. So I'll let it go and have no more to say on it.

 

[Jag]

Cowboydoc, thanks for saying all you said... I got in to this kind of late (sorry everyone, I have been BUSY). Very well said all the way around.... I with you all the way..

 

[cowboydoc]

Larry,
No offense meant to you or anyone else. I was just giving the other side of the coin. I"m not swinging at anyone. I'm just letting people know the why of why farmers and ranchers do what they do. At least from my own experience. I just didn't like it that farming and ranching got lumped in with the rest of the "yahoo hunters and killers", which I do agree with, but not responsible hunting.

 

[scruffy]

Well, from following this forum, I must say that I think the title should be changed to 'Thrash'n'Bash'. All parties are not reading the posts carefully enough, and taking what they do read 'personal'. There are arguements for both sides in this topic.
I still subscribe to my Dad's way of thinking about it. Our orchard was always open to the critters, but then so was an occassional deer in said orchard harvested. The garden was always planted with an approximate 5 foot layer of strawberries around the outer edge...for the quail and other critters looking for a tasty morsal. Of course, on occasion, they too were harvested. In my Dad's thinking, if he had to feed and support the wildlife, then they in turn could support the family table. The feed corn was something that we had to aggressively protect from deer, or they would destroy a fifty acre plot in nothing flat...herd of 20 to 30 deer will clean it out in short order. By the same token, if a wild critter, or a dog gone wild was creating a nuisance, destroying livestock, and or crops, it was soon brought down to a manageable loss.
Some wild critters are dangerous in their own right, but when less afraid of 'human' contact, then they become even more so. The mountain lion or couger, (your choice) is one of them. A young hungry cat (or older lame couger for that matter) are more prone to stalk a human than a healthy cat.
California has had more than just one incident of humans being attacked, killed, and dragged off by a cat.
This includes southern as well as northern California.
Black bears, while normally timid, can become a nuisance in dry drought years where berries and natural forage is very slim in their natural setting. I've known of incidences where they have broken into homes, and created a mess you wouldn't believe. I also know that two broke into/or were in the process of breaking through sliding glass doors when they were shot and killed by the homeowners, who incidently had mad several calls to the Fish and Game Department in an attempt to have these bears live trapped and relocated. The bears had been relocated out of State or Federal Park lands because they were 'recalcitrant many times over multiple offenders' of Park rules. Normally caused by idiots feeding the wildlife because they are so cute, or very careless.
Now off of my bandwagon and back to doing nuttin' but surviving the best that I can.

 

[DavidH]

cowboydoc:I agree with you a 100%. I have goats and last year I lost six to dogs. I've had to shoot several dogs that have wondered on my property and attacked the goats. I have three border collies and I train them to stay in my fenced acreage because I know if they wander onto my neighbors property they may be shot, because my neighbors depend on ranching for a living, unlike myself. I would understand completely and not blame them, I would blame myself for not controlling my dogs.

I don't mind conservation with common sense, but many people want conservation at any cost. When I lived in Pa. they would have an annual hunt at Tyler State Park each year to thin out the deer population. The park was surrounded by development and the deer would overpopulate and cause numerous accidents each year and get thin and diseased. The thinning of the deer left a much healthier herd, but each year the protesters still demanded that the hunt be stopped. The same thing happened in N.J. when they wanted to kill sea gulls that had caused several plane accidents. I flew out of N.J. for years and still remember the majestic beauty of sea gulls rising from the dumps in Staten Island and heading for my engine intakes.

I love nature and that is why I live in the country, but many good people have been used by the environmentalists who have stolen millions of acres of land and harrassed thousands supposedly to protect some species when all they are trying to protect is their power base. It's always bothered me that the same people who want more and more abortions each year, are the same people who would give their life up for a snail darter. Protect nature, but remember that we are animals also and at least deserve equal consideratiom.

I also love this forum and all the posters, and even though this subject was off on a wild tangent, I think it was a good change and healthy for the dialogue that keeps us coming back week after week. I've never met any of you , but I'm sure we'd be friends even if we disagree every once in a while.


DaveH

 

[RobertN]

The monopolies in ranching is what pushed my G'pa out in the early 70's. He couldn't compete, although he had done well, and was in a posistion where he could retire. So, he shut down. A lot of other business is the same though. How can the local hardware store compete with Home Depot and Lowes?

What were the coyote pups like to raise? My mom had a pig when she was a kid; she and others have said a pig makes most dogs look less than smart.

RobertN in Shingle Springs Calif

 

[Bird]

<font color=blue>a pig makes most dogs look less than smart.</font color=blue>

Absolutely right; smarter than a dog, smarter than a horse, and easier to train in my experience. The first hog I raised, when I was 10 years old, I had trained to ride; got a lot of attention at the Fair. I still have the two blue ribbons the hog won and the "Showmanship" ribbon I won with that hog.

Bird