Running machines off heating oil?

[XM16E1]

About to buy a new bobcat or CAT skidsteer and mini ex. Demoed the Bobcats this weekend and asked the sales rep about running them in heating oil. She said it would void their warranty but did not elaborate further.

I'm looking at a T770 and E50. Already have a 1000 gal tank I keep filled with heating oil for my boilers and Cummins 25kw generator. I live in Alaska and heating oil is different than red dyed offroad diesel. No dye in fuel here.

Anyone run their machines on heating oil?

 

[BrokenTrack]

About to buy a new bobcat or CAT skidsteer and mini ex. Demoed the Bobcats this weekend and asked the sales rep about running them in heating oil. She said it would void their warranty but did not elaborate further.

I'm looking at a T770 and E50. Already have a 1000 gal tank I keep filled with heating oil for my boilers and Cummins 25kw generator. I live in Alaska and heating oil is different than red dyed offroad diesel. No dye in fuel here.

Anyone run their machines on heating oil?

I have been doing so for years. My Kubota has over 3000 hours on it running off heating oil, and my last tractor before that as well.

I live in the Northeast and heating oil is easy to get delivered, so that is what we have for fuel here.

 

[RickB]

If your home heating oil is ULSD it is the same as diesel fuel except for additives. Some areas require HHO to be ULSD, some do not. Find out what sulphur levels Alaska requires HHO to meet and go from there.

Using high sulphur or LSD fuels for years in pre-Tier IV engines is far different than using it in todays engines.

 

[oosik]

I would be very careful. The local Kubota dealer says - NO - to home heating oil use in the newer Tier 4 units. Different formulation and lack of additives.

 

[aczlan]

I would be very careful. The local Kubota dealer says - NO - to home heating oil use in the newer Tier 4 units. Different formulation and lack of additives.

It has to be ulsd heating oil, our local Kubota dealer sells heating oil and they deliver it to the farm tank for us.

They say that it is exactly the same here in New York as they have required ulsd for heating oil for several years now, but not all states do that.

If you run non ulsd fuel in a tractor that requires ulsd fuel you will have to replace the DPF in short order and I suspect it will not be covered under warranty.

Aaron Z

 

[chevy]

I my area, off road diesel & heating oil are the same thing. I get mine from the local CO-OP. both are listed on the same line on their price board & come out of the same tank on their truck.
You just need to check with your local supplier that off road diesel & heating oil are the same thing.

 

[Alan W.]

Off Road fuel and Home Heating Oil comes out of the same tank here.
It always did, growing up our neighbor ran the local fuel oil supply.
The only difference is price due to taxing differences.

 

[Storm56]

A local fuel supplier that I have purchased from for 25 years, whom I trust, tells me as recently as last year, that the HHO here in PA, is not subject to the ULSD requirements of Off Road fuel. Sulfer content could be all over the board.

He does NOT recommend HHO for Off Road use.

 

[Storm56]

Just to clarify my previous post, my fuel supplier doen not recommend the HHO if you have any Tier 4 diesels using it, older units afe fine.

His trucks also have different compartments for the different fuels.

I am sure it may be diffrrent in other states.

 

[finn1]

You really have to ask your fuel distributor. All of the distributors I am familiar with sell ulsd as home heatoil as a matter of convenience and efficiency. Technically, HHO has a broader spec, including wider cetane range, lower cleanliness, and lower lubricity than ulsd, but practically speaking, including pipeline capacity and bulk plant storage and local distribution complexities fave lead oil companies to essentially rationalize their product lines and standardize on selling ulsd gor on road (undyed), off road, and heating oil all out of the same tank.

Remember, pretty much everyone uses the same pipelines, and there are big penalties for selling cross contaminated high sulfur fuel for on road engines.

Talk to your distributor.

 

[hosspuller]

I would not use HHO in a new diesel engine. Like using leaded gasoline in new cars circa 1977. Good enough for older engines, deadly for the new EPA mandated equipment. HHO has low specs so becomes the dump tank for any pipeline transitions or off spec fuel.

ULSD is not the only requirement for new diesel engines. There's cetane, lubricity, cloud point, etc. that HHO doesn't require.

 

[Industrial Toys]

SAME stuff here in Ontario Canada. HHO and Dyed Diesel.

 

[crazyal]

It's different stuff here. It has been for over 10 years now. When I buy HHO I also get ORD. My guy has it on the same truck but the truck has two tanks. The ORD diesel tank is often switched back and forth with kerosene so they will only schedule delivery when they have ORD in the second tank. ORD and HHO are the same price so I have no clue why they would go through the extra work if it wasn't true. I asked the driver. He said that ORD has additives to keep it from gelling in the winter and to increase how well it lubricates. Neither is needed for a furnace. I don't know if it's a state law or what.

 

[finn1]

I would not use HHO in a new diesel engine. Like using leaded gasoline in new cars circa 1977. Good enough for older engines, deadly for the new EPA mandated equipment. HHO has low specs so becomes the dump tank for any pipeline transitions or off spec fuel.

ULSD is not the only requirement for new diesel engines. There's cetane, lubricity, cloud point, etc. that HHO doesn't require.

The lubricity, cetane, cleanliness etc requirements are all part of the ulsd specifications. HHO has a wider spec, but all of the ulsd specifications also fall within the HHO specifications: ie its a narrow spec, within a wider band, and with some special requirements.

In a nutshell, ulsd can be marketed as HHO, since it (ulsd)is well within the HHO spec.

It doesn’t go the other way, but as a matter of convenience, cost, and safety within the distribution system, most distributors only handle one product.

As far as anti jell additives go, yes, it’s likely that some distributors may treat the delivery truck tank with additional anti jell, if they know a delivery is for vehicular use, but I doubt many do that. My distributor pulls all product from the same compartment, and, if hr treats it, it all gets treated.

Again, talk to your distributor.

 

[MHarryE]

Living in the NE it’s the same. I believe there are 6 states where home heating oil is quite common and they require ULSD. Rest of the country is open. My state (MN) says home heating oil can be to 500 ppm. One station near me has off-highway fuel at the pump but it’s labeled 500 ppm home heating oil. Not a problem for me because another station nearby has on-highway for 15 cents less per gallon.

 

[Tractor Seabee]

I would think that Alaska heating oil may always be #1 instead of #2 due to the winter temps. #1 is the same as kerosene and lubricity becomes a problem in engines. Winter motor diesel down here is a blend of #2 and #1 based on area temps so varies, plus a compensating lubricant is added. As it runs toward #1 the carbon content goes down and concurrently Cetane goes down, reducing available HP. Years ago we ran industrial diesel engines on #3 to get more HP from the engines; that was the days before low sulfur requirements. Like has been said your fuel distributor should know what his product is.

A sidelight; large ocean going diesel engine ships diesels use #5 or #6 oil in those huge engines. They are both tar at ambient temps. The oil has to be heated to around 600+ degrees to get atomization. Carbon = HP and reduces the cost/HP over using #3 or #2. The Navy toyed around with adding finely pulverized coal to the Jet fuel they use in gas turbine engines to get more HP per gallon. I did not pan out for a reason I never heard.

Ron

 

[Sawyer Rob]

I would think that Alaska heating oil may always be #1 instead of #2 due to the winter temps. Ron

That wasn't the case over all the years I lived there...

SR

 

[finn1]

Number 1 Diesel has higher cetene than number 2 diesel. The superior autignition quality of number 1 is why it improves cold start and reduces white smoke at low temperature.



The lower pour point as an added benefit, although the lower specific gravity does cause some power loss and reduce fuel economy on a volumetric basis.

I would think that Alaska heating oil may always be #1 instead of #2 due to the winter temps. #1 is the same as kerosene and lubricity becomes a problem in engines. Winter motor diesel down here is a blend of #2 and #1 based on area temps so varies, plus a compensating lubricant is added. As it runs toward #1 the carbon content goes down and concurrently Cetane goes down, reducing available HP. Years ago we ran industrial diesel engines on #3 to get more HP from the engines; that was the days before low sulfur requirements. Like has been said your fuel distributor should know what his product is.

A sidelight; large ocean going diesel engine ships diesels use #5 or #6 oil in those huge engines. They are both tar at ambient temps. The oil has to be heated to around 600+ degrees to get atomization. Carbon = HP and reduces the cost/HP over using #3 or #2. The Navy toyed around with adding finely pulverized coal to the Jet fuel they use in gas turbine engines to get more HP per gallon. I did not pan out for a reason I never heard.

Ron

 

[finn1]

That wasn't the case over all the years I lived there...

SR

Most of the population centers in Alaska have a marine climate with higher winter temperatures and lower snowfall totals than the upper Midwest.

 

[Jstpssng]

My father ran heating oil for years. When he bought his 2008 L2800 though the dealer told him not to do so. That may also have been just a CYO.