Rough Running BX

[ultrarunner]

I discovered a pinhole leak in a rubber fuel line giving me problems... it would idle ok... at speed it would stop due to lack of fuel.

 

[V1Rotate]

My 03 bx2200 has just started to cut out for a brief second every know and then , it just turned 700 hrs , after reading this I replaced the fuel filters again, still does it , so I pulled the tank figuring the sending unit was rusted , it looks brand new !? (I have always run off road fuel with the white bottle of power service additive), nothing in the tank at all , anyone have any thoughts on the gas cap or safety switchs , the tractors kept in a garage and only wet when washed maybe once a year , and very well maintained , Craig.

My BX was doing the same thing.
I think there might have been some dust or dirt in the seat safety switch, I lifted the seat and worked the switch plunger in and out a whole bunch of times with my fingers. This either cleaned up the switch or just by coincidence the tractor ran normal after that.

 

[PeterK]

2nd on cleaning the switch. My PTO lever gets dirty and I have to jiggle it once in a while to stop contact due to sticking.

 

[edzakory]

I'm having the exact same problems as the OP stated in his first post on my BX2660, i.e., engine nearly dies then rpm all over the place. This occurs after the engine runs fine for various periods of time. I also changed both fuel filters, and the air filter to no avail.

It appears others are having this problem as well. I purchased my BX2660 last year (Aug 2012) with 89 hours; it was three years old. The problem began occurring at nearly 100 hours.

I'm reluctant to take out the fuel tank and check the sender since I live in a dry climate (AZ) and did not notice any rust particles in the old fuel filters. I do believe the problem is fuel related but do not think the fuel stream is clogged enough to cause the kind of erratic engine operation as previously stated.

For those that have had this problem, please post your symptoms and solution. For other that have diesel engine experience, I would appreciate your comments as well. Due to the erratic behavior, this appears to be a tough problem to pinpoint.

 

[radioman]

take the easy way out -- unhook the hose from first filter and note flow into a bucket with cap on .plug line with finger. have a helper remove fuel cap and hand you the air hose. before you try blow air back into the tank, note flow with cap off. same? blow short air burst into the line. now note flow. does any of this help? let me know.

 

[North West Farmer]

edzakory,

This thread is basically three years old, unless I figured the dates wrong.

Initially in the early days of the thread it appeared that a major problem likely involved the fuel sender switch that seemed to have severe corrosion problems, almost universally to all of the units with that particular switch. Back in 2011 it appeared something needed to be done to make the sending units out of different materials to put a stop to the massive corrosion production found on many if not most or all of the sending units of that time.

Here in the last posts made in September of 2013 the only solution I noticed was to work over the seat safety switch on a members tractor. At this time it leads me to be suspect of safety lock out switches in general being subject to failure or at least creating a poor connection due to dirt accumulation in the switch, corrosion, wear or possibly just bad quality switches that may be responsible for bad circuit connections. In the newer tractors there are safety lock out switches all over the tractors and this could lead to significant numbers of potential electrical problems.

Due to the age of the thread the problems today may be very different than the causes found three years ago. At the end of the thread here in 2013 the only person that mentioned finding a solution to his poor running problems was V1 Rotate, when he cycled his seat safety switch manually through numerous cycles, after which his machine no longer had problems. We don't know exactly what was corrected by that action, but it apparently improved the contact in the switch and he was back in business.

Depending on what type of equipment you have and what conditions you have been operating in, as well as your preventative maintenance program, the old problems seemed to be related to sending unit corrosion, the problems Vi Rotate experienced indicate a good place to check would be you machines safety lock out switches.

Both of those areas have been identified as possible solutions to the intermittent poor running problems. Of course, there are many more possibilities, but these specific areas have yielded solutions in the past and my be places to begin a search for a solution.

Issues like this can drive a guy nuts, so good luck in correcting your specific problem. I hope my comments might have been of some assistance. It was all I could really identify based on looking back over the thread for possible solutions.

Nick, North West Farmer

 

[edzakory]

Radioman & NW Farmer,

Thanks for your replies.

I tried the seat switch correction but due to the sporadic nature of the problem, it may take a while to determine if the problem manifests itself again. It is enlightening to find out it may be an erratic electrical connection issue since the engine does not die out completely.

Fuel was flowing out of the first (under tractor belly) filter when I changed it. However, I did not use compressed air to blowback into the tank. I may give that I try once I give the electrical seat switch fix some time to determine if that solved the problem.

I did notice the engine began running smooth again when I filled the tank. I added about 4 gallons of fuel once the problem arose again yesterday. I do not use the tractor much which adds to the dilemma of pinpointing the problem.

I added to this tread rather than staring a new one for two reasons: the OPs post matched the age and model (BX) of my tractor and I felt that solutions posted under one thread may help others view all the various fixes.

Kind of makes me the miss the old 1947 Ford 8N I once owned.

 

[North West Farmer]

edzakory,

I think you were all right in posting in this thread, even though it was somewhat aged. The people that had made replies here are folks that are usually familiar with this problem and as in my case when your post came in I received a notification that someone had posted regarding this issue so I came back to see if any solutions had been found and to check out thread entries to attempt to identify any commonalities that may lead to a solution.

In the past I have gone back to old threads, researched the replies and in so doing have located solutions to an issue I have been dealing with here on the home place. Unfortunately in this case I only identified two items that may help you in clearing this up.

I do think Radioman's suggestion is a very good thing to to attempt. The results of the air blow back test might be very helpful for you.

Good luck in working this our. No additional ideas came to me so I will be standing by following the thread to see what develops.

Nick, North West Farmer

 

[V1Rotate]

Just as a follow up.
After working the seat safety switch (which may have cleaned off the contacts) over a year ago, my BX has been running perfectly.

 

[North West Farmer]

V1 Rotate,

With the results you experienced it appears that many members suffering the erratic running problems could possibly resolve their situation by checking and working over their safety switches where ever they might be located and possibly consider replacing them with new switches if simple cleaning or operating the switches through multiple cycles does not solve their problem as it did in your case.

I have experienced failure or the safety lock out switch's several times over the years and ended up replacing them. Definitely sounds like a very good place to start if they experience ongoing running problems as described by a number of our members. Your new post makes me feel very strongly these switches should be one of the first items to be checked carefully so they can be eliminated as a possible cause.

I might try bypassing the switch for a very short period of time to make certain it is not the problem. For safety sake, the switch should be taken out of operation for the shortest possible time. It is there to prevent potential serious injury to the operator so taking it out of the circuit should be done only for testing purposes and then put back in operation as soon as your test is complete. I always consider safety to be most important. Operating any longer than needed without the safety override switch in place is definitely not recommended.

Good luck for all of you that are dealing with the erratic running issue and by all means be safe out there.

Nick, North West Farmer

 

[15pbc]

I have essentially the same problem as the OP. 2006(?) BX1850D stored under cover. Always fueled with Mobil from a local station. Symptoms: running ok then RPM's drop; sometimes just a bit, sometimes until I'm sure its going to stall and quickly disengage the PTO and let up on the wheel pedal. In every case it doesn't actually stall but after a few seconds is (apparently) back to normal. I was getting the work done but always nervous it was going to die and I would have to tow it back to the barn.

After reading the excellent info from the OP I got buckets ready under the 1850D and pulled off the fuel hose after the electric pump...barely any flow. Pulled off the hose after the primary fuel filter....barely any flow. Pulled off the hose feeding the primary fuel filter....decent flow, but way less that I expected from a nearly full tank. Then I blew air into the hose and presto, good flow. I was using a couple small pails to fill 5 gal pails and I had wiped all of them clean before starting. After the first couple pails were in the bucket I looked in the bucket and the bottom was loaded with small black debris. After it had been emptied and dried a bit I could shake the primary fuel filter and it sounded like a baby's rattle. I have not seen any debris other than the black stuff which looks like rust flakes.

I went through the very non-service-friendly work to get to the fuel sender (I never did get the mower height knob off even after beating it upwards with a mini-sledge) and what to my wondering eyes should appear but the exact same rust on the sender rheostat housing that OP discovered. And the extensive rust I saw is AFTER all the debris in the bucket had fallen off it. I have to believe the issue here is simply bad fuel senders. Consider: I use no additives, just fresh name brand Diesel that I store inside the barn in yellow 5 gal purpose-made cans. The tractor is inside the barn so there is not the "tank sitting in the bright sun" issue that produces water in aircraft fuel tanks. I'm located about 25 miles West of Boston so salt air isn't a factor. The fact is I've had occasion to pull senders out of many machines WAY older than this thing (maybe 300 hrs) like stationary gensets, trucks, cars, planes, etc and I've NEVER seen rust /corrosion on one even in the same ballpark as this.

How would we know if there was a recall on these? A service bulletin? (Does Kubota even do recalls or service bulletins?) It could be that there are hundreds of these situations and the dealers just happily sell a new sender and filters and add few hundred bucks in labor plus trailering to and from the shop as I suspect few owners of this class of tractor do significant (or any) work on them themselves.

I welcome any comments.

 

[ultrarunner]

Sending unit corrosion is a known issue.

I had to drain and blow the lines to get good flow once.

Since then, I keep the tank full at all times...

Not sure if it makes a difference... just have not had the problem come back.... yet!

 

[15pbc]

Keeping the tank full is a good idea but we shouldn't have to, especially as Kubota doesn't say to or even suggest it.

I know the rust/corrosion is known however there was a lot of comment about an additive possibly being a culprit or if it was just a very odd occurrence. I'm saying that even with other circumstances I have the exact same result. I called my dealer and they looked up the p/n for a s/b or any comment at all about the design and there was none. So presumably Kubota is making the exact same item today.

I showed the sender to some mechanics at work and all were amazed that such damage could be caused inside a tank.

I have attached 4 pics, the orange thing is the Home Depot bucket of fuel that was totally clean so you can see all the crap that came out of the tank. The other 3 are of the sender, note the holes rusted right through the cover.

 

[ultrarunner]

Looks much worse than mine... almost like a ticking time bomb as far as the fuel system is concerned.

 

[platimer]

Thanks for this information. We're dealing with this problem right now. We just finished replacing both fuel filters. The temp is about -4 degrees, and we need to clear out a LOT of snow before the next big snowstorm hits Tuesday. But after the filters were replaced, it acted like it would run okay. After about five minutes of work time it started doing the same thing again, where the power went up and down for no apparent reason. We're going to put some kind of fuel conditioner that will dry up the water in case that is the problem. We did notice one of the filters we took out was sort of plugged up. I'm hoping it's not the tank. This is also a fairly new machine, I think it's about 2 or 3 years old. It's the BX2350 model. Any other suggestions are appreciated.

 

[15pbc]

If you didn't already I'd drain the tank into a pail (I used a couple small pails to move the fuel from the hose going into the first filter to the 5 gal pail). Otherwise the rust will just clog the filter again. Also if you drain the tank and the pail isn't all filled with rust bits you'll know it's something else.

When you take off the tank hose from the first filter leave the fuel filler cap on at first. If no fuel comes out and when you take off the cap fuel pisses out fast you'll know the (way too complicated) vent in the cap is blocked.

Good luck.

PS a good friend of mine, the long time Director of Projection at Radio City Music Hall is from Streator.

 

[15pbc]

I tried and tried to get Kubota to send me a replacement sender for free or at least to admit there was something wrong with a sender housing rusting to pieces in a few years while other nearby steel parts (the float arm) have no rust at all.

No sender, no admission that a sender rusting to bits is anything other than my own fault for not immediately filling the tank to the very tip top after each use.

Gee, if that's really required wouldn't it be great if it was mentioned in the manual?

But they did send me a mesh Kubota ball cap; great for snow blowing.

 

[platimer]

Thanks for that info. I'll go tell the guy who's working on it about this. By the way, the fuel tank is plastic on this one, so it can't be rust.

 

[15pbc]

Yeah all the fuel tanks are plastic I think, the rust all comes from the box around the fuel sender. It flakes and flakes and makes way more rust than I would have thought.
Some other guys have found plastic bits left over from making the tank too.
And of course stuff could have fallen in the filler hole. I may make a filter for it out of aluminum window screen.

 

[platimer]

We seem to have the BX running good again (Yay!). Was advised that pouring new fuel into a cold tank was a bad idea immediately preceding the start of this trouble. The tank has been near empty and the air temp had been running negative zero for the better part of two or three weeks, so it was a very cold tank. Anyway, for the fix to this problem he put a small heater up behind the tractor in the barn and warmed up the tank. Then poured Kerosene (# 2 Fuel) into the tank. It has been working like a champ for the past three hours and we have most of the snow cleared again, just in time for a new storm to come in tomorrow or Wednesday. So, to recap what we did, we changed both fuel filters, put fuel stabilizer in, heated the fuel tank before starting the engine, and when warm, added Kerosene. Hoping that it will work for us now for a good long time. I will be sure to ask the guy to fill the tank when he puts it back up in the shed tonight.