Roller fairlead for winch or not?

[Boondox]

What's the advantage of getting a roller fairlead for an ATV winch versus the non-rolling type?

Pete

 

[Farmwithjunk]

What's the advantage of getting a roller fairlead for an ATV winch versus the non-rolling type?

Pete

If you use the winch, your cable will last longer with the roller.

 

[rjgogo]

If you use the winch, your cable will last longer with the roller.

unless you use synthetic rope.

steel cable I would use the roller, synthetic, I would not.

 

[257NH]

I think they are worth the extra money.Your cable will last a lot longer,especially if you have to hook to something from a side angle.

 

[dknarnd]

unless you use synthetic rope.

steel cable I would use the roller, synthetic, I would not.

This statement sums it up correctly!!!!

 

[DieselPower]

Winch cable guides greatly increase the life of the winch cable. When they are not used the cable can roll up across itself in a X pattern. When you then load the cable the crossed section of the X tends to get crushed which shortens it's life. With a guide the cable is guided evenly across the spool so it winds up like a roll of sewing thread. Don't forget to lube your cable every once in a while to. It is a mechanical component that need's service just like your engine or transmission. A properly lubed cable can last many times longer than one that is not.

 

[ovrszd]

Winch cable guides greatly increase the life of the winch cable. When they are not used the cable can roll up across itself in a X pattern. When you then load the cable the crossed section of the X tends to get crushed which shortens it's life. With a guide the cable is guided evenly across the spool so it winds up like a roll of sewing thread. Don't forget to lube your cable every once in a while to. It is a mechanical component that need's service just like your engine or transmission. A properly lubed cable can last many times longer than one that is not.

Whooooppss, gotta counter this statement. All of my comments below are in regards to steel cable.

The Roller Fairlead will do nothing to guide the cable when spooling. That will be determined by the direction of pull. It's inevitable that the cable will spool tangled and crossed over when used. Don't worry about that too much while pulling unless it piles up on one end of the drum so much that it starts rubbing on the winch structure or fairlead. When you park the vehicle for the day it's very important that you unroll the cable and respool the cable manually, guiding the cable back and forth across the drum so that it is not crossed over itself and will be ready for use the next use without kinks. I do this by hooking the cable hook to a stationary object, put the winch in freespool and back the vehicle away from the hook until I have unrolled down to a good straight spool. Then I engage the winch and start spooling in cable while dragging the vehicle and guiding the cable back and forth across the spool. On my ATVs I do that while sitting on them and watching the cable spool. On my Jeeps I use my remote control and guide the cable by hand while spooling. When I'm done the cable is smoothly spooled without any kinks or crossovers.

As for oiling the cable. I do not oil my cables. I wash them if they get packed with dirt/mud, leaving them unspooled and stretched taut until dry, then respool, guiding the cable evenly on the drum. If you oil your cable it will attract dust, sand, dirt, etc., which will become embedded in the cable and then start grinding on the cable strands every time you use it, eventually weakening the cable.

As was stated above, use a Roller Fairlead for steel cable and a Hawse Fairlead for synthetic cable. If you try to use a Roller Fairlead on synthetic cable it will get pinched between the rollers and damage the cable. If you use a Hawse Fairlead on steel cable, the cable will wear grooves in the Fairlead and then those grooves will start cutting strands of the steel cable, weakening it until it fails. Properly use and care for your winch cable and it will give you years and years of service.

 

[DieselPower]

Whooooppss, gotta counter this statement. All of my comments below are in regards to steel cable.

The Roller Fairlead will do nothing to guide the cable when spooling. That will be determined by the direction of pull. It's inevitable that the cable will spool tangled and crossed over when used. Don't worry about that too much while pulling unless it piles up on one end of the drum so much that it starts rubbing on the winch structure or fairlead. When you park the vehicle for the day it's very important that you unroll the cable and respool the cable manually, guiding the cable back and forth across the drum so that it is not crossed over itself and will be ready for use the next use without kinks. I do this by hooking the cable hook to a stationary object, put the winch in freespool and back the vehicle away from the hook until I have unrolled down to a good straight spool. Then I engage the winch and start spooling in cable while dragging the vehicle and guiding the cable back and forth across the spool. On my ATVs I do that while sitting on them and watching the cable spool. On my Jeeps I use my remote control and guide the cable by hand while spooling. When I'm done the cable is smoothly spooled without any kinks or crossovers.

As for oiling the cable. I do not oil my cables. I wash them if they get packed with dirt/mud, leaving them unspooled and stretched taut until dry, then respool, guiding the cable evenly on the drum. If you oil your cable it will attract dust, sand, dirt, etc., which will become embedded in the cable and then start grinding on the cable strands every time you use it, eventually weakening the cable.

As was stated above, use a Roller Fairlead for steel cable and a Hawse Fairlead for synthetic cable. If you try to use a Roller Fairlead on synthetic cable it will get pinched between the rollers and damage the cable. If you use a Hawse Fairlead on steel cable, the cable will wear grooves in the Fairlead and then those grooves will start cutting strands of the steel cable, weakening it until it fails. Properly use and care for your winch cable and it will give you years and years of service.

True, you might have problems with roller fairlead's. Personally all my tow trucks and the tow trucks I work on have LevelWinder spool guides. Super simple design that works great.

As for lubrication of the cable you might want to check with ANY winch cable manufacturer. You will find that lubrication is a normal part of cable maintenance. That's why all major lubricant manufacturers make "cable lube". They are not as sticky as you might think though. Most use some form of solid film lubrication like Moly. Here are two excellent articles on wire rope and lubrication practices.

http://www.unols.org/publications/winch_wire_handbook__3rd_ed/06_wire_rope_em_cable_lub.PDF

Lubrication Basics for Wire Ropes

 

[ovrszd]

True, you might have problems with roller fairlead's. Personally all my tow trucks and the tow trucks I work on have LevelWinder spool guides. Super simple design that works great.

As for lubrication of the cable you might want to check with ANY winch cable manufacturer. You will find that lubrication is a normal part of cable maintenance. That's why all major lubricant manufacturers make "cable lube". They are not as sticky as you might think though. Most use some form of solid film lubrication like Moly. Here are two excellent articles on wire rope and lubrication practices.

http://www.unols.org/publications/winch_wire_handbook__3rd_ed/06_wire_rope_em_cable_lub.PDF

Lubrication Basics for Wire Ropes

Yep, definitely mixing apples and oranges here. A spool guide is a total different fruit from a fairlead. As for lube, in your business it's probably a good idea. For me, my winch cable use works better dry.

 

[EdK]

Personally all my tow trucks and the tow trucks I work on have LevelWinder spool guides. Super simple design that works great.

Can you please provide any more info on this? A web search just brought up a couple of references to huge offshore marine winches. I might like to get/make something like this for my home-brewed logging winch.

Thanks, Ed

 

[rjgogo]

Whooooppss, gotta counter this statement. All of my comments below are in regards to steel cable.

The Roller Fairlead will do nothing to guide the cable when spooling. That will be determined by the direction of pull. It's inevitable that the cable will spool tangled and crossed over when used. Don't worry about that too much while pulling unless it piles up on one end of the drum so much that it starts rubbing on the winch structure or fairlead. When you park the vehicle for the day it's very important that you unroll the cable and respool the cable manually, guiding the cable back and forth across the drum so that it is not crossed over itself and will be ready for use the next use without kinks. I do this by hooking the cable hook to a stationary object, put the winch in freespool and back the vehicle away from the hook until I have unrolled down to a good straight spool. Then I engage the winch and start spooling in cable while dragging the vehicle and guiding the cable back and forth across the spool. On my ATVs I do that while sitting on them and watching the cable spool. On my Jeeps I use my remote control and guide the cable by hand while spooling. When I'm done the cable is smoothly spooled without any kinks or crossovers.

As for oiling the cable. I do not oil my cables. I wash them if they get packed with dirt/mud, leaving them unspooled and stretched taut until dry, then respool, guiding the cable evenly on the drum. If you oil your cable it will attract dust, sand, dirt, etc., which will become embedded in the cable and then start grinding on the cable strands every time you use it, eventually weakening the cable.

As was stated above, use a Roller Fairlead for steel cable and a Hawse Fairlead for synthetic cable. If you try to use a Roller Fairlead on synthetic cable it will get pinched between the rollers and damage the cable. If you use a Hawse Fairlead on steel cable, the cable will wear grooves in the Fairlead and then those grooves will start cutting strands of the steel cable, weakening it until it fails. Properly use and care for your winch cable and it will give you years and years of service.

I agree to a point, I just did some really hard side pulls on my jeep last weekend and the roller kept it where I wanted it but then again I am using an old Warn 8274 on a jeep with a 150 feet of cable, saved my azz. I was in a sticky situation.

Where I disagree is waiting until the end of the day to re spool. I try to do a hand respool after every pull. Don't want it bound for the next one. But I was using my junk pretty hard.

Wish I had synthetic, might buy it sometime, saves a lot of issues with spooling.

 

[ovrszd]

I agree to a point, I just did some really hard side pulls on my jeep last weekend and the roller kept it where I wanted it but then again I am using an old Warn 8274 on a jeep with a 150 feet of cable, saved my azz. I was in a sticky situation.

Where I disagree is waiting until the end of the day to re spool. I try to do a hand respool after every pull. Don't want it bound for the next one. But I was using my junk pretty hard.

Wish I had synthetic, might buy it sometime, saves a lot of issues with spooling.

I guess if you only plan to use it once, then respool after every pull. These two pulls were within fifteen minutes of each other so no respooling was done. I only respool during a run if my cable is bunched on one end and the next pull is in the same direction and I'm gonna pile up cable until it starts dragging on the winch frame.

Also, I'm not sure one of those winch spool guides will work without a guide pulley in front of the drum keeping the pull centered on the drum. On a tow truck that is possible and the cable is always being pulled straight off the drum. On a Jeep or a tractor mounted winch that wouldn't always be the case.

 

[gemini5362]

True, you might have problems with roller fairlead's. Personally all my tow trucks and the tow trucks I work on have LevelWinder spool guides. Super simple design that works great.

As for lubrication of the cable you might want to check with ANY winch cable manufacturer. You will find that lubrication is a normal part of cable maintenance. That's why all major lubricant manufacturers make "cable lube". They are not as sticky as you might think though. Most use some form of solid film lubrication like Moly. Here are two excellent articles on wire rope and lubrication practices.

[/url]

Hmm what are level winder spool guides that sounds interesting.


As to oiling the cable. I worked at a steel mill with 2 overhead cranes rated at 125 tons I am not sure how long the cable was because it ran up each side of the hoist block I believe 5 loops. It used 1 inch cable and the crane was 110 feet from the floor. The steel mill has one of the best preventative maintenance plans I have ever seen. Every weekend PM was done on all equipment. Twice a year the plant shut down and all equipment was thoroughly checked and rebuilt as necessary. I never once saw them lubricate the cable and I worked with the mechanics that worked on the cranes. They lubricated the blocks but never saw them lubricate the cable once.

 

[DieselPower]

Can you please provide any more info on this? A web search just brought up a couple of references to huge offshore marine winches. I might like to get/make something like this for my home-brewed logging winch.

Thanks, Ed

AWDirect.com - RM75 Ramsey Level Winders™

http://www.ramseypdfs.com/pressreleases/LevelWinders.pdf

Ramsey states they are for their winch's only but I have used them on numerous other manufacturers winch's before with no problem. You just need to make sure you get the proper width Level Winder for your winch spool. They simply mount behind your winch spool with two provided bolts.

 

[DieselPower]

Hmm what are level winder spool guides that sounds interesting.


As to oiling the cable. I worked at a steel mill with 2 overhead cranes rated at 125 tons I am not sure how long the cable was because it ran up each side of the hoist block I believe 5 loops. It used 1 inch cable and the crane was 110 feet from the floor. The steel mill has one of the best preventative maintenance plans I have ever seen. Every weekend PM was done on all equipment. Twice a year the plant shut down and all equipment was thoroughly checked and rebuilt as necessary. I never once saw them lubricate the cable and I worked with the mechanics that worked on the cranes. They lubricated the blocks but never saw them lubricate the cable once.

Just because they were not lubricating them doesn't mean they shouldn't be. Most people don't realize that wire rope needs to be lubricated. If they contact their cable manufacturer and ask them about it they will find they should be lubricating them. Not lubricating the wire rope shortens it's life. Wire rope strands are a mechanical item just like bearings and crankshaft in a engine. Two metal surfaces that move against each other need lubrication to prevent wear. Depending on the size of the wire rope it can have hundreds of seperate strands of wire each of which stretch and contrat every time they are loaded and unloaded. Every time they do this the strands are rubbing against each other causing friction and wear. If the wire rope is not lubed once in a while the wire strands start to rub against each other, meaning metal to metal contact.

 

[schmism]

AWDirect.com - RM75 Ramsey Level Winders™

http://www.ramseypdfs.com/pressreleases/LevelWinders.pdf

both of those are inteded to be used in straight pull applications (ie on the back of a flatbed tow truck)

That method of guide still does not prevent hard off axis pulls from distrubing a normal spool pattern.

Hear is the last recovery from last years ralley i worked. (i work as a heavy sweep providing this exact service) FYI the recovery required 3 winches and the driver/codriver were uninjured and drove the car back to town some 10 miles away. (FYI the car was faceing the wrong way on the race course)

http://www.snjschmidt.com/pics/ralley_recovery2_06.jpg
http://www.snjschmidt.com/pics/ralley_recovery3_06.jpg
http://www.snjschmidt.com/pics/ralley_recovery1_06.jpg

 

[schmism]

what we need is a winch from a unimog

RMM - HPC winch

pto powered, with spooler

 

[rjgogo]

I guess if you only plan to use it once, then respool after every pull. These two pulls were within fifteen minutes of each other so no respooling was done. I only respool during a run if my cable is bunched on one end and the next pull is in the same direction and I'm gonna pile up cable until it starts dragging on the winch frame.

Also, I'm not sure one of those winch spool guides will work without a guide pulley in front of the drum keeping the pull centered on the drum. On a tow truck that is possible and the cable is always being pulled straight off the drum. On a Jeep or a tractor mounted winch that wouldn't always be the case.

Yeah, the first pic looks about right if it were goinig down hill and the pull was up hill and the line was perpindicular to the jeep. Guess you use your YJ pretty hard as well! Nice Jeep BTW but where is the hood?

I use mine while I run, the line is fast but somtimes not as fast as my jeep, so it tends to get a little wierd on the drum as I move forward. It will bunch up as you know, what ever takes a couple of minutes to fix.

 

[EdK]

Dieselpower: thanks for the info. I do have a Ramsey winch but I don't know as I'll be able to get a levelwinder to fit as the spool width is about 17 inches (R-30) and the largest levelwinder I see is 11 inches and change.

Ed