Robin Generator - No power

[alchemysa]

The component on the right is a $2 transistor it could be a voltage regulator or a rectifier you will buy from Tandy or Jaycar . But what caused it to blow ? If your lucky the generator was overloaded and that may be all that is wrong with it . Can you see a partial number on it ?

Ironhorse. No identifying numbers at all I'm afraid. The small part is upside down. The other side of that part probably had the identifying details but its completely burnt and broken off.

 

[Soundguy]

I said it would be like an archealogical dig and it was! Heres the 'find'.

Before I take it to the 'generator shop' and get laughed at does anyone want to hazard a guess what it is?

I had no idea what a to-220 was so i had to look it up.
TO220 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.WOW..Thumbnails!. Thats new!!!

That package should had a side that is flat inline with the case metalic tab, and another side with a bump out where the epoxy case is. The bump out side is where the ID number will be. If that is the side that is blown out.. you are SOL, and will need a parts list or schematic.

(P.S. Why do so-called experts always think the obvious answer to anything is to buy a new one for a $2000 instead if spending a few cents trying to fix the old one?)WOW..Thumbnails!. Thats new!!!

Uh.. I'm not sure what to make of that statement..

soundguy

 

[Soundguy]

The component on the right is a $2 transistor it ?

It could be alot of things... diode.. darlington pair.. etc.. Truth is.. in that package.. it could be lots of things.. that's whey he needs a part number / list / schematic.

soundguy

 

[RonMar]

It could be alot of things... diode.. darlington pair.. etc.. Truth is.. in that package.. it could be lots of things.. that's whey he needs a part number / list / schematic.

soundguy

Which he isn't going to get, as the manufacturer guards that info to make it purposefully difficult to get, so you have to buy that high dollar circuit board that cost them $5 to create en-mass...

 

[jinman]

Which he isn't going to get, as the manufacturer guards that info to make it purposefully difficult to get, so you have to buy that high dollar circuit board that cost them $5 to create en-mass...

You are surely right about that, Ron. The only way manufacturers can protect their design is to hide the component types and values. It's easiest to do that with ICs an components where they have their own proprietary numbers printed on the package.

In the case of a Robin generator, there are lots of Subaru-Robin generators still for sale and the board might be available from them if the generator can be identified. It might be cheaper to replace the whole generator with a new one that will bolt up to the engine.

A 2000W generator should not cost much more than $600 for the whole thing if bought new. A gnerator without the engine should be far less if you can find one. I have an old pressure washer with boiler and a 2000W generator attached. I rigged the generator so I can run lights at night off of it, but I haven't found much more use for that low power output.

 

[jdbower]

Whether schematics are available depends on the product type, the more computerized it is the less likely it is to be published. Generators are fairly simple and it wouldn't surprise me if schematics were available. This book claims to have Robin wiring schematics, but I don't know if they go down to the part numbers used.

Update: Here are some owners, parts, and service manuals that may help...

 

[alchemysa]

Uh.. I'm not sure what to make of that statement..

soundguy

I just meant that many shops don't seem to have much time for people who want to fix old stuff like this. It wasn't a comment about the helpful folks on this list.

 

[RonMar]

You might find an overall wiring diagram for the generator, but the AVR will be listed as a empty/black box. You can get the P/N for that board assembly, but I would doubt you will ever find a discrete component list for the AVR. This isn't really rocket science, but it can be made complicated depending on if any other control functions are piggybacked onto the AVR circuit.

On another forum I participate for slow speed engines, a few are working on a simple AVR circuit to enhance the simple harmonically excited generators a lot of us are using on our slowspeed engines. These generators don't use an AVR. It has a diode rectifyer pack and some brushes. It uses load dependent feedback from an extra set of stator windings to excite the field. Because of this it has a looser voltage tollerance. Mine goes from 125V down to 115V between no-load and full load, and this is mostly attributed to the RPM/freq droop from 62HZ down to 58HZ full load.

This freeware AVR they are working on will cost about $30 or so in parts to fabricate. The current plans can be downloaded and someone is working on getting circuit boards etched at a minimal cost, to aid in our home construction.

There are a bunch of different ways to excite and control a generator, that all the manufacturers circuits, and that particular burnt part, are going to be different. A good electroincs engineer with a way to make an educated guess at the other components on the board might be able to tell you what that damaged part is.

There are also a few generic AVR manufacturers out there, but knowing enough about the application to order one that would work, is the hard part...

 

[Eagleview]

It could be alot of things... diode.. darlington pair.. etc.. Truth is.. in that package.. it could be lots of things.. that's whey he needs a part number / list / schematic.

soundguy

Thats why i asked him if he could see a partial number so i could match it up with the listings in the book i have . alchemysa// What condition is the printed circuit in ? Will you be able to de-solder the old pins and re-solder the new transistor pins back on ? If they are burnt , scratched etc it's probably futile , i have bridged broken tracks before with solder or fine wire but the board needs to be really clean . That vibration preventitive the board is coated with looks pretty thick and challenging .

 

[alchemysa]

Thats why i asked him if he could see a partial number so i could match it up with the listings in the book i have . alchemysa// What condition is the printed circuit in ? Will you be able to de-solder the old pins and re-solder the new transistor pins back on ? If they are burnt , scratched etc it's probably futile , i have bridged broken tracks before with solder or fine wire but the board needs to be really clean . That vibration preventitive the board is coated with looks pretty thick and challenging .

Iron horse. I didn't take a pic of the back of the circuit board but I'm pretty confident I'll be able to solder the 3 pin gizmo into place. I cleaned up the board pretty well with a Dremel engraver type of tool, and I can bridge a couple of places where I broke the track. The board is pretty big (About 2x4 inches) with very few components so its pretty roomy. Apart from the burnt component it looks like new. But my problem is identifying the 'thing'. The piece of the thing that got blown off had the identifying marks. (And theres no fractured little bits anywhere in the regulator box. I'm obviously not the first person to look.). Under a magnifying glass the only marking I can see appears to be a Hitachi logo.

I visited a generator shop today. The guy said he thought it was a silicon something or other. But he gave me the name of another guy across town who knows more about these boards. I hope to get over there in a day or two. This is a very old genset. Its a Robin 7hp engine, with Robin RG20 generator. I cant find a thing on the net about it. I was originally told it was 'Waibin' generator but I dont think thats correct. I can't find any info at all about 'Waibin'.

(Copy of Hitach logo attached)

 

[Soundguy]

A good electroincs engineer with a way to make an educated guess at the other components on the board might be able to tell you what that damaged part is. t...

Yep.. a schematic, even if it did not list part numbers would be helpfull, as it will at least ID what the component is and does for the circuit. then guestimates can be made from there.

soundguy

 

[Soundguy]

I just meant that many shops don't seem to have much time for people who want to fix old stuff like this. It wasn't a comment about the helpful folks on this list.

That's for sure. i remember when you could walk into a genny/starter shop and just ask to buy the brushes and bushings for yuor gen..walk out with 8$ of parts and rebuild it youurself. now you are lucky if you can find a rebuilder at all.. and if you do.. all he wants to do is rebuild.. not sell parts.. except maybee a VR.. etc.

soundguy

 

[Soundguy]

I could tell right of fthat the part of the package with the number was long gone. Also.. I'll bet that coating was there as more of a 'information control' technique, vs the little vibration glue many manufacturers use. may also have been a weatherproofer.. etc... Works good as all three.. etc.

soundguy

Thats why i asked him if he could see a partial number so i could match it up with the listings in the book i have . alchemysa// What condition is the printed circuit in ? Will you be able to de-solder the old pins and re-solder the new transistor pins back on ? If they are burnt , scratched etc it's probably futile , i have bridged broken tracks before with solder or fine wire but the board needs to be really clean . That vibration preventitive the board is coated with looks pretty thick and challenging .

 

[Egon]

Sounds like a bunch of confusion to me??

 

[Skyco]

I was originally told it was 'Waibin' generator but I dont think thats correct. I can't find any info at all about 'Waibin'.

(Copy of Hitach logo attached)

Could Waibin be Elmer Fudd saying Robin?

 

[biggerten]

Also.. I'll bet that coating was there as more of a 'information control' technique, vs the little vibration glue many manufacturers use. may also have been a weatherproofer.. etc... Works good as all three.. etc.

soundguy

That is what is known as conformal coating, it is to protect the PCB assembly from environmental hazards.

 

[alchemysa]

Could Waibin be Elmer Fudd saying Robin?

You could be wite! ... but he writes with an impediment too. Some previous owner had written WAIBIN on the gen case. It was assumed this was the actual manufacturer of the gen thats attached to the Robin engine. Its a wed herring I think.

 

[Eagleview]

I think you will find the "B" is a "K" and reads "Waikin" , give it a Google , you may find them . Ive attached a page from my parts cattle dog , if you can read it .

 

[alchemysa]

Well I take back what I said about experts not having time for us little guys.
I found out that Australia's 'voltage regulator guru' works in my own home town. I took my board into him and he identified the part immediately. Its an MCR8SN Silicon Controlled Rectifier. He even wanted to give it to me for free. (He at least let me put a few bucks in the charity sweets box). He was happy to see me trying to get the old Robin going again. He's fixed a few himself. He took quite some time explaining a few details. I thought that was pretty cool for a guy who works on custom built $50,000 generators and could have tried to sell me his own special $140 replacement circuit board.
Heres the address..Genaust Power & Water Pty Ltd - Control Modules

Anyway I got the part, soldered it in, reconnected everything and fired it up.
Beautiful! I'm a happy man.. a 2000 watt generator for less than $50.. and I know nothing about electronics! And thanks for everone's interest.

 

[Soundguy]

Good deal... an SCR..

soundguy