Right to Privacy

[dave1949]

Think about it....the government panel has no doctors on it and even if it did they would be paid for and owned by the government. They say they are going to decide and advise doctors as to the best and most effective treatments and procedures but do not forget they have 70 Million baby boomers getting ready to enroll in Medicare and have to control costs...so their incentive will be to reccomend inexpensive treatments and procedures. Google Ezekiel Emanuel complete lives system and open your mind to what they are up to..FREEDOM EDEN: Ezekiel Emanuel: COMPLETE LIVES SYSTEM

Bob, We better hope that the politicians, of either stripe, have the guts to do something about Medicare costs. We cannot afford the option of doing nothing. Where would the funding come from if costs continue on the track they are on? It's a real problem that requires thoughtful solutions.
Dave.

 

[FallbrookFarmer]

You have a right to health privacy. You don't have to tell anyone anything ever about your health. You have the right to sit there and die quite anonymously if you like. However, if you enter into an agreement with someone to pay for your health care, that agreement usually specifies that the payer gets to know what they are paying for. Doesn't matter if it is a private company or the government you enter into the agreement with... they get to know what is wrong with your body.

Now how they use that information is another story. Is that what you are asking?

That certainly is a concern!
You are correct to point out that he who pays the piper,calls the tune, but traditionally there has been a
level of privacy between doctor and patient that I fear will be eroded over time.

 

[FallbrookFarmer]

Bob, We better hope that the politicians, of either stripe, have the guts to do something about Medicare costs. We cannot afford the option of doing nothing. Where would the funding come from if costs continue on the track they are on? It's a real problem that requires thoughtful solutions.
Dave.

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you!
WHERE will the funding come from?

 

[brin]

Bob, We better hope that the politicians, of either stripe, have the guts to do something about Medicare costs. We cannot afford the option of doing nothing. Where would the funding come from if costs continue on the track they are on? It's a real problem that requires thoughtful solutions.
Dave.

I told my Doctor that if ever there was a test or procedure that the insurance company or eventually medicare did not approve to let me or my wife know so we could pay for it with our own money and the Doc just gave me the deer in the headlight look...she knew exactly what I meant but dared to say nothing..I firmly believe there is already rationing in place and it will only get worse. I don't know how old you are Dave but we will see how thoughtful you want folks to be when Medicare is your only choice and no one will take your cash because it would not be fair for you to get treatment a poor person could not afford...Think about it..

 

[MikePA]

Young people will now pay more for insurance so that coverage on older people, the richest segment of the US population, will not have to pay so much. Even though the richest segment of the population is the largest consumer of health care dollars.

That's why Medicare has gone broke. That's why Social Security is going broke. Too few paying in, too many taking out.

This stuff is Underwriting 101, it doesn't require thoughtful solutions. There are none.

Individual health insurance policy - Premium is based on your health and lifestyle.
Ride motorcycles? Premium up. (the premium should be lower since you'll probably be turned into road pizza ergo, no health insurance claims)
Exercise? Premium down.
Fat? Premium up.
Smoke? Premium up.

Group health insurance policy - Based on the overall health of the group. When that cannot be determined, actuarial data and information (if available) about the members of the group are used to develop rates. The more healthy people in the group, the lower the rate. If you are in a small group and have unhealthy people in the group and you are experience rated, your premiums will go up. No pre-existing condition exclusion? Premium up. Why? Because the risk is 100%. It's not if this group of people will have claims, it's when.

Insurance companies, any insurance company, have 2 primary functions;

1. Assume risk.
2. Pay claims out of the premiums collected.

Insurance companies are a tiny cause for the rise in health care costs. What's the big cause? Medical procedures, both the cost of them and the number. Everyone wants the best health care and since 'someone else' is paying for it, they get it. Medicare and Medicaid would have gone broke a long time ago if the private sector wasn't around to make up the difference. What do I mean? Assume it costs a doctor $100 to perform a procedure. That's $100 just to cover their costs, e.g., paying staff, electricity, etc., no profit rolled into the $100. Medicare reimburses them $5 (no joke - this happens). Where does the other $95 come from. Where else can it come from, non-Medicare patients. Guess what that does? It drives up the cost of private insurance because they are subsidizing Medicare, which in turn drives people to opt for the cheaper 'government' insurance. Which means private sector premiums go up even more. See the logical conclusion of this death spiral? Everyone on the government plan. When this happens, how will the government control costs when the private sector subsidy is gone? The only way that's left, limit the number of procedures performed, i.e, rationing.

 

[brin]

Mikepa, You do know that folks on Medicare are not getting a free ride at all. They have paid into it for their whole working life and when they reach 65 they have no choice, they are on Medicare and for a man and his wife they pay $800.00 + per month plus their co-pay + their deductible and their co-pay on any of their medications. No the real problem is folks on Social Security that should not be there and the same with Medicare...that is the problem.. I can see where younger folks buy into the propoganda but remember, if you are lucky enough, you will live to be 65 yrs. old and then you will have no choice but to go on medicare and should be mindful of the rules you tolerate now since they will apply to you later, agian if you live that long..

 

[FallbrookFarmer]

Same applies to the old (now previous) system.
ARMIES of clerical dudes at the HMOs blocking treatments and denying claims.
Have they all been through medical school ? I doubt that they have.
They "save" the insurance companies a LOT of money every year.
Cost containment is nothing new - ask anyone who has tried to get a warranty repair recently.

Now, if someone has a medical procedure/treatment and it is paid for under a government funded insurance policy, but they then claim it as a tax deduction......
Hmmm, maybe I wouldn't mind the IRS finding out (being TOLD) about that.

Don't think you'll get too many people defending HMO's here. The difference being, they ARE in the free market.
And while we may decry the lack of choices in the health care industry, What will happen when there is only ONE "choice"?

 

[Chuck52]

Don't think you'll get too many people defending HMO's here. The difference being, they ARE in the free market.
And while we may decry the lack of choices in the health care industry, What will happen when there is only ONE "choice"?

Well, you're still alive....at least I guess that's you using your moniker , and the government plan seems to work OK for you, so maybe we'll all be lucky!

On the other hand, perhaps it was your government run health care that made you conservative?

Chuck

 

[FallbrookFarmer]

Well, you're still alive....at least I guess that's you using your moniker , and the government plan seems to work OK for you, so maybe we'll all be lucky!

On the other hand, perhaps it was your government run health care that made you conservative?

Chuck

Lucky,Yes ,I was lucky enough to serve my country, so I guess if you want to see that a "free" benefit, that's your choice.

 

[MikePA]

Mikepa, You do know that folks on Medicare are not getting a free ride at all.

Yep, I know. Medicare is a Ponzi scheme just like Social Security. Bernie Madoff was a piker compared to these 2 programs.

 

[FallbrookFarmer]

Mikepa, You do know that folks on Medicare are not getting a free ride at all. They have paid into it for their whole working life and when they reach 65 they have no choice, they are on Medicare and for a man and his wife they pay $800.00 + per month plus their co-pay + their deductible and their co-pay on any of their medications. No the real problem is folks on Social Security that should not be there and the same with Medicare...that is the problem.. I can see where younger folks buy into the propoganda but remember, if you are lucky enough, you will live to be 65 yrs. old and then you will have no choice but to go on medicare and should be mindful of the rules you tolerate now since they will apply to you later, agian if you live that long..

I agree that Social Security has problems when multi-millionaires are receiving benefits.
But why not look at the base of the problem.
It is NOT sustainable. We now have young workers, paying the benefits to retirees. That was not what was sold to people when the scheme was set up.
I know it's going to be painful, but the day of reckoning has to come, better to do it sooner rather than later.

 

[brin]

I agree that Social Security has problems when multi-millionaires are receiving benefits.
But why not look at the base of the problem.
It is NOT sustainable. We now have young workers, paying the benefits to retirees. That was not what was sold to people when the scheme was set up.
I know it's going to be painful, but the day of reckoning has to come, better to do it sooner rather than later.

Here's the thing...Social Security was originally designed for old folks as subsistence in old age after years of working, however if you do some research you will see the politicians have removed all the money from the SS trust fund for other pet projects and over the years have added all sorts of folks including immigrants to the Social Security roles..Before cutting any benefits to those older folks who worked and paid for their benefit they sure better kick anyone under 66 yrs. old off the roles..

 

[dave1949]

I told my Doctor that if ever there was a test or procedure that the insurance company or eventually medicare did not approve to let me or my wife know so we could pay for it with our own money and the Doc just gave me the deer in the headlight look...she knew exactly what I meant but dared to say nothing..I firmly believe there is already rationing in place and it will only get worse. I don't know how old you are Dave but we will see how thoughtful you want folks to be when Medicare is your only choice and no one will take your cash because it would not be fair for you to get treatment a poor person could not afford...Think about it..

Bob,
I'm 60 years old and realize I am healthier now than I ever will be in the future. I hope I am thoughtful. The way I see the figures, it will be a financial impossibility to continue the current medicare cost trends as the boomers go through it over the next 20 years, unless medicare payroll taxes are raised significantly. I don't really see that as an option. To me, that means finding the way through that harms the fewest people under some set of guidelines and cost savings.

We need to make medicare as efficient as possible. Hard as it sounds, we also need to realize when our own time comes, that we are being selfish if we think we need to spend the last weeks of our lives in an intensive care unit being kept somewhat alive very artificially. I don't mean to offend, but that is my personal opinion.
Dave.

 

[FallbrookFarmer]

Here's the thing...Social Security was originally designed for old folks as subsistence in old age after years of working, however if you do some research you will see the politicians have removed all the money from the SS trust fund for other pet projects and over the years have added all sorts of folks including immigrants to the Social Security roles..Before cutting any benefits to those older folks who worked and paid for their benefit they sure better kick anyone under 66 yrs. old off the roles..

I agree, but find me the politician who is going to the AARP meeting and inform them, Sorry, no more bennies
The last one who even tried anything close, was Danny Rostenkowski, and he almost got a ride out of town on a rail

 

[FallbrookFarmer]

Bob,
I'm 60 years old and realize I am healthier now than I ever will be in the future. I hope I am thoughtful. The way I see the figures, it will be a financial impossibility to continue the current medicare cost trends as the boomers go through it over the next 20 years, unless medicare payroll taxes are raised significantly. I don't really see that as an option. To me, that means finding the way through that harms the fewest people under some set of guidelines and cost savings.

We need to make medicare as efficient as possible. Hard as it sounds, we also need to realize when our own time comes, that we are being selfish if we think we need to spend the last weeks of our lives in an intensive care unit being kept somewhat alive very artificially. I don't mean to offend, but that is my personal opinion.
Dave.

I KNEW you were just a young whippersnapper

 

[brin]

Dave...I am 65 and I agree with you except are you willing to trust a government beaurocrat to decide when your last 2 weeks are ? Next, wouldn't you like to be able to spend your own money to keep yourself alive if you and your family decided that you had longer to live than the government said you did ? See the problem ? It is trust and freedom isn't it...and where are they under this new health care reform ? This bill was signed without anyone reading it...be careful until all the facts come out.
__________

Fallbrook...I agree it will take a committted politician with his facts to show the huge amount of Social Security payments going to folks that were never intended to get it...and it well may be too late for that to happen ..we just may be too far gone !!

 

[FallbrookFarmer]

Dave...I am 65 and I agree with you except are you willing to trust a government beaurocrat to decide when your last 2 weeks are ? Next, wouldn't you like to be able to spend your own money to keep yourself alive if you and your family decided that you had longer to live than the government said you did ? See the problem ? It is trust and freedom isn't it...and where are they under this new health care reform ? This bill was signed without anyone reading it...be careful until all the facts come out.
__________

Fallbrook...I agree it will take a committted politician with his facts to show the huge amount of Social Security payments going to folks that were never intended to get it...and it well may be too late for that to happen ..we just may be too far gone !!

I think that your comment that it will take a "committed"
politician to show folks-----" would evoke the concept
that a politician might have to be released from "commitment" in a mental health facility to run on that platform

 

[Chuck52]

Lucky,Yes ,I was lucky enough to serve my country, so I guess if you want to see that a "free" benefit, that's your choice.

I re-read my post and don't see "free" in it. Maybe you should check your vision benefits? I fully expect to pay for any health care I receive....I always have. We're arguing about the mechanism.

Chuck

 

[brin]

Bob,
I'm 60 years old and realize I am healthier now than I ever will be in the future. I hope I am thoughtful. The way I see the figures, it will be a financial impossibility to continue the current medicare cost trends as the boomers go through it over the next 20 years, unless medicare payroll taxes are raised significantly. I don't really see that as an option. To me, that means finding the way through that harms the fewest people under some set of guidelines and cost savings.

We need to make medicare as efficient as possible. Hard as it sounds, we also need to realize when our own time comes, that we are being selfish if we think we need to spend the last weeks of our lives in an intensive care unit being kept somewhat alive very artificially. I don't mean to offend, but that is my personal opinion.
Dave.

I agree, but find me the politician who is going to the AARP meeting and inform them, Sorry, no more bennies
The last one who even tried anything close, was Danny Rostenkowski, and he almost got a ride out of town on a rail

I think that your comment that it will take a "committed"
politician to show folks-----" would evoke the concept
that a politician might have to be released from "commitment" in a mental health facility to run on that platform

Fallbrook -- I am afraid you are exactly right...We will just have to see how involved the American citizens will get...what they will tolerate and what they won't and that will be it I suppose.

 

[dmccarty]

Yes, the current generations paid into Social Security and Medicare their entire lives. The problem is that that are getting more out of the programs that what they paid in and that there are not enough people, young people, at the bottom paying into the system to support the people taking out of the system. The younger generations are paying for the oldest.

This is called a Ponsi scheme. A Pyramid. A new name would be a Madoff. A small group of people at the top are getting money from a larger group at the bottom. That is bad. What is worse is that the group at the top collecting the money is getting larger while the group at the bottom giving the money is shrinking.

And the richest segment of the population is the elderly who get the most government benefits.

The other problem is that the younger generation is paying far more into the system than they will ever receive. My generation and the generations before mine will never ever get what we paid into the system. It is not possible.

The developed European countries along with Japan, Taiwan, and South Korea have huge money problems down the road. Ok. Some of them are already hitting potholes. They and we have quickly aging populations that will consume more public money. With the exception of the US these same countries have a declining population. Which means they will not have the tax base to pay for the promises made to the generations who have paid into the system. Japan already has a debt ratio of two times their GDP.

The US is just barely maintaining its population. If illegal immigration is counted we have a growing population. This only helps us so much given that such a large portion of the US population will soon be dependent on taking money from one group to give to another.

The system is broke.

People can pretend the system is fine but it is not.

Benefits will have to be cut and certainly taxes raised as a bandaid but the system will have to be changed. Its only a question of when and how much it will cost.

How much I make and how much I am worth is known by the government which is a violation of privacy.

I just had a phone call from a real estate broker asking if we would like to sell some of your land. How did he get my phone number and know I owned land? Well the phone number he got off the Internet which is fine since I published it. But he knows that I own the land via the public documents the county keeps to tax me.

People have been loosing privacy for centuries but it has increase dramatically in the last 100 years and especially this century. It seems like people are like the frog in the pot of water on the stove. The water is getting hotter but the frog does not notice. Privacy is slowly being lost. Some by government edict. Some by business. And more by individuals. People tweet about what they are doing, their location, their friends, etc. I see people on public forums announcing when they will be on vacation.

The simple act of posting on TBN tells us much of the poster. But not forced by edict.

At least so far.

Wait. What is that I hear? It is a tractor! No. OMG it is a bunch of tractors! And they are all black! They are circling the house!

Gotta go! Gotta hide!

Later, maybe,
Dan