Returning batteries for warranty claim

[DarkBlack]

I’m guessing the 12 volt reading they measured and printed as “good” was the voltage during a load test.
Batteries commonly drop to 12 volts or even upper 11’s during high current draw conditions like cranking a starter motor.

I’d check your alternator again. Your original charge voltage seemed low.
In addition to measuring dc voltage with the revs up, where you should get 14.v or more, also switch your meter to AC, and make sure you don’t see more than some millivolts there.

 

[BrianinMichigan]

I just bought this battery tester at harbor freight. It measures the internal impedance of the battery. ( More accurate than a load test. ) I have a battery on my motorhome that I just bought last spring and it is testing 40% . Time to back to the store and complain.

 

[DarkBlack]

I just bought this battery tester at harbor freight. It measures the internal impedance of the battery. ( More accurate than a load test. ) I have a battery on my motorhome that I just bought last spring and it is testing 40% . Time to back to the store and complain.

Different impedance testers use different frequencies, and give different results. Unless you bought a battery that warranties a certain reading on your harbor freight tester, I don’t know what argument you would have, unless the battery fails to perform by their normal warranty standards

 

[DGF]

900CCA NAPA “Legend” Batteries dated 11/23 are at 12V and 700 CCA.

In 50* temps, they don’t have enough a$$ left to turn tractor over, so I took them back to NAPA.
NAPA dealer says “leave them overnight and we will test CCA tomorrow after long charge”.

They hook a NAPA tester up to it now and it says 12V 702CCA on one and 12V and 698CCA on the other.

I’m sure an overnight charge will bring them back to life, but will it last?

I’ve had to jump them a couple times and after tractor is running, makes about 13+ on the voltmeter and theres no electrical system light on.

Hi,

You cannot really trust that the NAPA guy knows enough about battries to make a good determination on it. Chances are he may only know how to connect the charger and maybe run a test but not really understand what the results mean or how to interperet them.

When new, your battery should have an internal source impedance of 10m Ohms (0.01 ohms) You can get this number by dividing 12V by the CCA which I am assuming is 1105A for your battery. To get an upper limit divide 12V by the AHr rating which is about 164.2A. This gives an upper source impadance of 27, ohms. Ref: (https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/BAT7549)

If you have or get a battery tester you can confirm that your battery falls in this range. There is some leeway in these values because your battery does have some service time on it but if its say 80-100m ohms or more something is wrong with it. Cells can go bad for several reasons but most often its low on fluid if it is a flooded type. The others could have a bad, weak or failing cell.

The warranty will be prorated so you are unlikly to get a replacement. I've attached the warranty information for you and how they calculate that. The warranty describes the review process and the first step is to give it a fresh charge so they can see how it responds. Good batteries should have a source impedance in the range I stated above so ask what number they measured at no matter what the out come. Aging batteries will have result that begins to creep up over time as they wear out.

A good spot check is measure the battery voltage with nothing connected to it. This is the open circuit voltage. Then reconnect it and turn on the head lights and anything else you might have but not the motor. Measure the battery voltage again. The difference between the the two measurements should not be much more than 1V. If it is the source impedance is increaseing.

This is all assuming the battery is the culprit. Cables and connectors that are not optimum can cause very similar effects and when battery post clamps stretch they can seem tight but not be so be sure twist the cables on the post after tightning and always clean them both before putting them back together. It may not seem like much but when your pushing 100s of amps a little dirt can cause a fair amount of voltage droop.

Good luck with it.

 

[Hay Dude]

I would take the battery to a reputable parts store like advance or auto zone ,or another napa store and ask them to do a slow charge and then a load test for you..tell them you will pay for it but most likely they will say no charge...a napa store is only as good as the knowledge of the employees working there..and it looks like your napa store has a broken link or 2 in their employee chain...

Did you read previous posts? NAPA did overnight slow charging and then performed their battery tests.

 

[jgmo]

Your voltage regulator is bad. Not shutting off

X2 for VR failed. Alternator allowed to over charge and cook your batteries.

On that truck though, I believe that the regulator is integral to the alternator so you're likely going to be forced to buy both together.

99 was around the year model Ford and others went to "smart charging" and put the Power train Control Module (PCM) in the charging control loop. So, you should try to find out as much as possible about how your system works before buying any replacement because many aftermarket and "remanufactured" units might not be compatible and not work properly.
Even a genuine Motorcraft might not work if it's not "vin matched" to the vehicle.
Good luck.

 

[ultrarunner]

1973 Penny’s Auto Centers were big on lifetime warranties and sold Lifetime batteries… I put one in my great great aunts Rambler and collected several times over the decades…

At home I use my Load Tester and it hadn’t failed me once… also found a bad starter and alternator with it.

I found the high draw bad starter after the owner had replaced the battery twice.

Starter armature bushing had slipped so armature was not in alignment and having my meter hooked up when he turned the key showed a 900 amp draw.

 

[sixdogs]

Best thing you can do for your batteries is to put them on a NOCO charger like this one. You will keep them working at Optimum for the length of the battery life. (which can be 10 years as I've seen from my testing and use) Your money your call. I'm doing it on mine to ensure they last.

Amazon.com

I have a Noco10 genius myself. Its been able to resurrect quite a few dead batteries over the years.

Great thread.

Count me in on the NOCO smart charger bandwagon. I fully trickle charge (3A and 5A) as late as I can before winter and then again in the spring. I've had light truck batteries last 12 years and I think longer. My preference is sealed batteries and I do have some AGM and Optima. My current M7040 Kubota got a new battery last year after 12 years.

Something of concern is that batteries are apparently being made to lower standards and I think manufacturers are installing lower quality lead acid batts than they used to. In batteries, I've found that buying upscale and sealed works and lasts longer.

 

[Donnybrookfarms]

I'm with you on the alternator, if you are getting over 13v running, it's fine. Batteries are stupid and it seems like they just get worse and worse.

I don’t buy that it’s n the charging system. Years ago I took a motorcycle in because the battery kept dying and on their equipment they showed me it charging at 13.5 volts. after a few weeks of having to jump the battery every 2-3 day I went out and bought a regulator and never had any more problem. for some reasons it would not charge intermittentally. Don’t know why and don’t care problem was soloved.

 

[ultrarunner]

Great thread.

Count me in on the NOCO smart charger bandwagon. I fully trickle charge (3A and 5A) as late as I can before winter and then again in the spring. I've had light truck batteries last 12 years and I think longer. My preference is sealed batteries and I do have some AGM and Optima. My current M7040 Kubota got a new battery last year after 12 years.

Something of concern is that batteries are apparently being made to lower standards and I think manufacturers are installing lower quality lead acid batts than they used to. In batteries, I've found that buying upscale and sealed works and lasts longer.

Don’t know but I have heard battery lead now is mostly reprocessed and inferior to virgin?

 

[Maineuropa]

I would definitely check your battery ground. You don’t say where you are jumping your battery( connections). My Deere 955 group is consistently having problems there with 30 plus year old tractors. Does the starter crank well with a jump?

 

[DarkBlack]

My 2008 tractor still runs on the original battery ( 16 years).
Never once been on a charger

 

[jjeff]

Shouldn't napa test the battery with a conductance tester? 15 yrs ago bought a small hand held midtronics brand conductance tester, prices have went down since then and there's more brands on the market. Anyways it lets you know if the plates/cells are ok and gives you CCA among other things. I test new batteries before I install them. Most of my battery issues have dissipated since I started using battery trickle chargers/maintainers especially for longer term storage.

 

[Handloader109]

You have a bad battery. If they don't want to replace, yep, take it home and kill it. Oops, key left on overnight. Or lights on for a few hours. If you are putting out 13v or more, your charging system is at least good. If battery voltage is 12v at rest, the battery is bad or is going bad. I bought autozone 84 month, beet for my f150. First one made it 26 months, second one 13 months and we'll see about the one I got in February. I think I've got till roughly end of the year for free replacement... garbage. Daughter had one last a month over the warranty. Oh well

 

[Hay Dude]

@jjeff,
I’ve said probably 4-5 times in the thread they were slow charged and tested and I was given printouts on the health of the batteries.
I’m leaving the thread for a bit, before I start tearing out what little hair I have left
LOL

 

[Hodado]

I had a Walmart battery last an unbelievable 18 years in my Ford 8N, when it finally failed I replaced it with another Walmart battery and so far it’s also working fine.

I had a battery in my John Deere that lasted for nine years so when it died I payed up for another the replacement John Deere battery only lasted one season doa
I’ve been buying the cheapest battery from the farm store and normally get three or four years

 

[boatmoter]

900CCA NAPA “Legend” Batteries dated 11/23 are at 12V and 700 CCA.

In 50* temps, they don’t have enough a$$ left to turn tractor over, so I took them back to NAPA.
NAPA dealer says “leave them overnight and we will test CCA tomorrow after long charge”.

They hook a NAPA tester up to it now and it says 12V 702CCA on one and 12V and 698CCA on the other.

I’m sure an overnight charge will bring them back to life, but will it last?

I’ve had to jump them a couple times and after tractor is running, makes about 13+ on the voltmeter and theres no electrical system light on.

I do an overkill and use 1000 CCA battery in my tractor. plenty of juice

 

[Hay Dude]

I do an overkill and use 1000 CCA battery in my tractor. plenty of juice

Yeah I'm surprised mine doesn't have 3 batteries. It's an 8.4L diesel. When it's cold, it's a tough crank

 

[Walter Clark]

A fully charged flooded cell lead acid battery should read 12.7 (12.64) and a 100% discharged should read 12.07. In both cases this is with no load. The voltage of a fully charged battery should only be read a few hours after the charge is complete, or has been "rested". Same for a load test. Doing either right after a charge will give false higher readings.

These batteries will charge with anything over 2.15V per cell (12.9V for a 6 cell 12V battery) applied however the time needed to reach full charge at 12.9V is enormous. Typical charge voltages from most constant voltage alternators is more like 2.3-2.35V per cell (13.8-14.1V for a 12V battery) as this will get a battery somewhat discharged from starting back to a reasonable state in a couple hours without risking boiling the electrolyte from overcharging. That said, I have encountered a few charging systems where it appears that battery life wasnt really considered and the output voltage was low (as in 13V) but adequate for the implement to operate. My Kubota is like this. Smart battery chargers will usually monitor charge voltage and/or current and apply more than the 14.1 early in the cycle and ramp that down over time as the battery charge state increases so as to shorten charge time but avoid the boiling problem encountered with electrolyte heating from excess current.

What does this have to do with your problem.

Your 13V output alternator most likely isnt really charging the battery to anywhere near 100% in the time you have the tractor running. It might not even be putting back as much as you used to start it up. This means that over time and multiple startup-operate-shutdown cycles your battery average charge state keeps getting lower and lower. Eventually this may lead to a battery that is at the 0% charge level (12.05V) and it wont start the tractor. Over time lead acid batteries (flooded or AGM) left at anything below 100% charge will sulfate which reduced their ability to function, and the battery usually needs to be replaced. So, in your case, assuming you cannot raise the alternators operating voltage to the 13.8-14.1 voltage, You need to plan to put it on a smart charger between uses. Even with 13.8-14.1 alternator output, if the tractor sits for long periods, a maintenance charger is going to be a good idea.

My Kubota battery lives on a charger between uses and over the last 30 years I have only had to replace the battery twice.

 

[sixdogs]

Don’t know but I have heard battery lead now is mostly reprocessed and inferior to virgin?

I wonder about that. It seems all of a sudden batteries went to cr@p