Resolving self leveling dislike

[Boss 302]

Thanks for the compliment, Airbiscuit.

 

[LD1]

What was the bore of the original cylinder?

3.14 sq inches x 2500psi is still almost 8000# of retract force....times 2 cylinders....

Then it becomes a geometry thing to figure that at bucket edge

OEM being 1-3/8 and going to 1-1/2 rod is not a huge amount.

 

[npalen]

What was the bore of the original cylinder?

3.14 sq inches x 2500psi is still almost 8000# of retract force....times 2 cylinders....

Then it becomes a geometry thing to figure that at bucket edge

OEM being 1-3/8 and going to 1-1/2 rod is not a huge amount.

Yes, I agree, and, as airbiscuit mentioned above, the bucket curl usually seems to have plenty of force due to its geometry. I do notice on larger industrial payloaders that the linkage is reversed which results in the base end of the bucket cylinder doing the curl. Not sure if that is because more curl force is needed or the self-leveling system just works out better design wise with the cylinder "pushing the curl".

 

[ovrszd]

All I know for sure is there's a LOT of geometry going on in the curl function of any FEL. A slight modification "here" might cause a dramatic change "there".

I'm curious to hear the result of the mods being made.

 

[Boss 302]

Me too Richard, I'm thinking positive. I was able to finish the fab on the cylinder mounting plates and tack weld them in place in order to connect everything up and see how the geometry works out. Hopefully Monday if all goes well, I can do an empty bucket dry run.

 

[jimglassford]

Yes, I agree, and, as airbiscuit mentioned above, the bucket curl usually seems to have plenty of force due to its geometry. I do notice on larger industrial payloaders that the linkage is reversed which results in the base end of the bucket cylinder doing the curl. Not sure if that is because more curl force is needed or the self-leveling system just works out better design wise with the cylinder "pushing the curl".

It is a cost issue when it comes to the push versus pull design. There are more heavy duty linkages to make the extend function curl the bucket. The FELs are designed as cheap as possible.

 

[Boss 302]

Update: Finished tweaking fabrication of cylinder mounting brackets, tack welded and performed an empty bucket dry run today and the results are what I was hoping to achieve. Pics attached of the before and after mods showing full curl and maximum rollback and the difference is like night and day. I am very pleased with the outcome and plan on welding everything up tomorrow.

 

[LouNY]

Enjoy her

 

[airbiscuit]

Why, that's perfect!

 

[npalen]

I notice that there is very little lever arm left as shown in the pic. (distance from the line of action to the bucket pivot point) Do you think that might be an issue?

A load at the end of the bale fork, for example, will put a much larger load on the cylinder when fully retracted as shown. My little Kubota B9200 with it's loader is like this and the bucket is fairly unstable in this scenario.

Just asking as now is the time to check this prior to "welding her up".

 

[Boss 302]

Good question npalen, I wouldn't expect it to be an issue with the beefier cylinders and the fact that now it actually sits against the factory stops.

 

[LD1]

Are there factory stops for the rollback?

Cant really see them in the pic. But it still looks like the cylinder has a few more inches to retract

 

[Boss 302]

Yes, there are factory stops for rollback and it's against the stops.

 

[ovrszd]

As it nears complete rollback the speed will increase and power will decrease. But I think the operator will get accustomed to that.

Nice work!!!

Anxious to hear how it works!!!

 

[Boss 302]

Just to update:
Was able to get everything welded up and finished putting loader back on the tractor yesterday. This morning we needed to put clean sawdust in the stalls, generally this takes 2 full buckets due to the limited rollback with the self-leveler. I was able to get enough to do all the stalls with one bucket. I am very satisfied with the results but have one regret and that is, I wish I would have done this years ago when I first realized that the self-leveler had no real value ad for the type of work that I do. Thanks for all of the first-rate suggestions and insight that most of you provided to help me step back and think through the process.

 

[ovrszd]

Thank you very much for the update!!! Often we never hear back as to the results. Thanks again!!!

 

[airbiscuit]

 

[npalen]

Good to hear that this worked out for you, Boss 302, as you put a lot of thought and fabwork into the project!

I ran across this interesting video on Deere's Industrial "Powerllel lift" self leveling system. No, it doesn't have a lot to do with this thread other than "self-leveling". The comment about the conventional z-bar self leveling cylinder reducing the breakout force makes me wonder if, on a conventional mechanical self leveling loader, does the fact that it is trying to tilt the bucket down during breakout, actually reduce the breakout force? (Sorry for the long sentence)

P.S. I initially thought that powerllel was a miss-spelling of parallel.