Remotes for Remotes

rswyan · Jan 20, 2005

While visiting Prince Hydraulics website looking for something else, I noticed that they now offer a cable operated remote for most of their hydraulic valves:

Remote Cable Control

The assembly appears to have a much smaller footprint than a valve would, which might be a handy thing.

I'm currently in the process of adding remotes and one of the dilemmas I'm facing is the mounting location of the valve - there are a couple factors competing against one another:

1. Desire to have the remotes as close to the rear as possible to facilitate easy hookup (I have QD's mounted directly on my valve)

2. Desire to have the remotes far enough forward that I can reach them without turning around or sideways to operate them.

3. Being able to locate the valve in such a way that the liklihood of being sprayed with hot hydraulic fluid if I lose a hose is low.

I'm curious if anybody out there has priced these or used them, and how they compare to valve with just the normal handle on them. Obviously they are a little more complicated, more things to go wrong, and might require a little more additional maintenence.

MadReferee · Jan 20, 2005

( The assembly appears to have a much smaller footprint than a valve would, which might be a handy thing.)

Well, assuming you put the actual valve somewhere else then yes. Otherwise you still have to find a place for the valve which will need even more space width wise to include the cable connections.

The remote setup still needs the valve, it just removes the existing levers from the spools and has a cable setup to a new joystick which is located somewhere away from the actual valve. If I am not mistaken, the fender mounted joystick on the Kubota Grand L cab tractors is done with cables to the actual valve.

( I'm currently in the process of adding remotes and one of the dilemmas I'm facing is the mounting location of the valve - there are a couple factors competing against one another:

1. Desire to have the remotes as close to the rear as possible to facilitate easy hookup (I have QD's mounted directly on my valve))

So did I on my Kubota. Short of fabbing a new holder bracket for the valve or doing what Henro did, there is only one logical place for the valve where it would fit.

( 2. Desire to have the remotes far enough forward that I can reach them without turning around or sideways to operate them.)

For remotes you mean the control lever(s). Yes, but there are only 3 lengths of cable available which will limit placement but the longest should be able to reach where the loader joystick is now even with routing the cable under and around everything. Also the minimun bend radius for the cables is 8". This might severely limit routing options (ie. no sharp bends).

( 3. Being able to locate the valve in such a way that the liklihood of being sprayed with hot hydraulic fluid if I lose a hose is low.)

Yea, if a hose breaks. But I don't consider that a big deal. If a hose breaks for a work port that's not being activated you will get no spray of fluid. Just this morning I had a fitting literally break on one of my work ports just before the QD (another story in itself). All it did was just fall off. Since the spool was not activated nothing really happened and I didn't even notice it until 15 minutes later.

I am not saying this option is a bad idea. Assuming you can find someplace to locate the valve in the rear behind the seat, and if the price is not too outrageous, then this option would be worth looking into.

rswyan · Jan 20, 2005

( Well, assuming you put the actual valve somewhere else then yes. Otherwise you still have to find a place for the valve which will need even more space width wise to include the cable connections. )

Right.

( So did I on my Kubota. Short of fabbing a new holder bracket for the valve or doing what Henro did, there is only one logical place for the valve where it would fit. )

I actually did fab up a new holder bracket - it's over the controls for the Mid-PTO on the left fender and attaches to the two ROPS bolts. The valve sits on it's side, with the bottom of the valve facing towards the operator, to the right. The control handles are mounted towards the bottom of the valve (with the valve in it's normal orientation, this would be downward., as it is they are to the front and up of the left armrest on the seat.) Need to get some longer Grade 8 bolts for the ROPS, so I can mount it up and check it, but I may have welded the mounting plate for the valve just a little too low on the arm for hose clearance on the outlet side - so I might have to grind the plate off and reweld it. Unfortunately I didn't just tack it. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Once I get the bracket mounted I'll post a picture of it.

( For remotes you mean the control lever(s). Yes, but there are only 3 lengths of cable available which will limit placement but the longest should be able to reach where the loader joystick is now even with routing the cable under and around everything. Also the minimun bend radius for the cables is 8". This might severely limit routing options (ie. no sharp bends). )

Right - good point on the sharp bends. I hadn't scoped out the catalog page fully - just looked at the webpage (under News on Prince's website)

( Yea, if a hose breaks. But I don't consider that a big deal. If a hose breaks for a work port that's not being activated you will get no spray of fluid. Just this morning I had a fitting literally break on one of my work ports just before the QD (another story in itself). All it did was just fall off. Since the spool was not activated nothing really happened and I didn't even notice it until 15 minutes later. )

Right. My valve placement is a little different, so it might be more of an issue for me than for you. I do plan on covering the inlet, outlet, and power beyond hoses with that fabric hose protector so that might offer some protection if a hose were to break.

( I am not saying this option is a bad idea. Assuming you can find someplace to locate the valve in the rear behind the seat, and if the price is not too outrageous, then this option would be worth looking into. )

Yeah - the trick is always finding the location to mount it. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

ronjhall · Jan 20, 2005

I don't know if you have seen the mounting that I did for 3 valve on my B2910.
Here is a picture of the valve mounted on right fender. Click Here
Here is a link to how I mounted the other 2 valves. Click Here.
Threw out the thread there are other pictures of how valves are mounted on B27-2910's.
Hope this helps with your project.

rswyan · Jan 22, 2005

Ron,

Thanks for the pics - I think at some distant point in the past I might have seen both of them. (Of course as time rolls forward I often forget about things I've seen, so lately I've taken to saving images to a folder of "Fabrication Examples") I especially like the double spool that's mounted on the FEL valve - do those control only front remotes ? Or do they control rear ones as well ?

I cut apart my valve mount yesterday after I found I had the mounted plate too low and rewelded the plate back on. I now have to shorten up one piece so that it doesn't intrude too much into the seating area and I'm not activating the spools with my posterior whenever I get on and off the tractor. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif I may even have to cut down the control handles on the valve and rethread them so that I can raise the seat all the way and have it clear.

I need two longer bolts for the ROPS to attach the mounting bracket - when I was at TSC the other day I picked a couple of 1/2" x 4" Grade 8 bolts but the diameter is really just a little too small. They'll do for the moment but I want to replace them with the proper bolts. It appears the original ones are metric - with a 13mm diameter.

Anybody know of a good place to source Grade 8 metric bolts in that size ?

ronjhall · Jan 22, 2005

Front valves have Tee's and hoses for Front and Rear of tractor.
In the winter I use left hand valve for angle on the snow blade. Right hand valve is used for top cylinder on 3PH. Right hand fender valve is used for angling rear blade.
In the summer I use left front valve for grapple opening and closing.
I can put right valve in float. This allows whatever cylinder it is hooked to move freely.
I guess it would help if I took some of my pictures of these projects and posted them in TBN photos. It would be easier for others to see.
Note to self: Do it. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

MadReferee · Jan 22, 2005

( I need two longer bolts for the ROPS to attach the mounting bracket - when I was at TSC the other day I picked a couple of 1/2" x 4" Grade 8 bolts but the diameter is really just a little too small. They'll do for the moment but I want to replace them with the proper bolts. It appears the original ones are metric - with a 13mm diameter.)

Just get a 9/16" drill and bore the holes a little bigger. Then get a 9/16" grade 8 bolt the correct length. I did this awhile ago to a friends ROPS that was rattling. Now no more rattle.

Oh yea, don't forget to call the ROPS police!! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

JerryG · Jan 22, 2005

I did this awhile ago to a friends ROPS that was rattling. 
O-rings on the bolts work real well to quieten them down.

rswyan · Jan 22, 2005

( Just get a 9/16" drill and bore the holes a little bigger. Then get a 9/16" grade 8 bolt the correct length. )

I looked for 9/16" Grade 8 bolts while I was at TSC - unfortunately they jumped from 1/2" to 5/8" /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

I have thus far sucessfully avoided drilling of the tractor for any mods. I'd like to avoid it if at all possible - but I may have to breakdown and bite the bit on this one, so to speak.

rswyan · Jan 22, 2005

Here's an image of the valve mount installed on the tractor.

rswyan · Jan 22, 2005

One with the valve mounted. The seat will now fold forward (with the left arm rest raised) without hitting the valve handles. The controls are right at my fingertips while resting my arm on the arm rest.

Now I have to install the hydraulic outlet block and plumb in the hoses.

rswyan · Jan 22, 2005

( Front valves have Tee's and hoses for Front and Rear of tractor. )

I was planning on running hoses to tee's (on the rear) on one of the spools on my valve, putting a pair of QD's into one leg of the tee's and then running a pair of hoses to the front for a set of QD's there.

I noticed that you have the male tips mounted on the tractor, with the female ends of the QD on the hose - that's the way it is on the valve for my FEL. Is that typical or standard ? Any reason to do it that way as opposed to the reverse ?

ronjhall · Jan 22, 2005

I just followed the FEL setup. They take up less space.
Most tractors have the female end mounted on the tractor for remotes. This may be done for cost savings. It's cheaper to buy male ends for all the different attachments that may be used. This did not matter to me since I bought all the QD as pairs.
I am replacing all of the male and female ends with ones that match the FEL. This will allow me to swap the dump valve with the one I use for angle on my snow blade. I will be able to use joystick for angle and raise/lower. May be a problem with the Regen circuit on the angle. But I will wait and see.

lmiller · Jan 22, 2005

Anybody know of a good place to source Grade 8 metric bolts in that size ? 

Try www.mcmaster.com

Lou

MadReferee · Jan 23, 2005

( I looked for 9/16" Grade 8 bolts while I was at TSC - unfortunately they jumped from 1/2" to 5/8" )

Try any of the big box stores like Home Depot or Lowe's, or even your local hardware store. I have a ServiStar hardware store near me that has a fantastic selection of grade 8 bolts, everything from 1/4" to 1" in diameter and 3/4" to 9" in length with 1/2" increments, both fine and coarse threads.

rswyan · Jan 23, 2005

( Try www.mcmaster.com )

Hmmm .... I'm not really sure what this is.

After looking through some discussions on metric bolts and going to a web page at Bolt Depot that identifies bolt grades I'm not sure what I actually have - it appears to be bigger than 1/2" and slightly smaller than 9/16". It measures out at 13mm or 17/32" on the shank with my cheapy set of calipers - and the grade markings on the end of the bolt (six lines) would appear to indicate that it is a American fractional size, unless this marking is also used on Metric bolts.. It doesn't have an 8.8 or 10.9 stamped on the end - just the six lines.

MadReferee · Jan 23, 2005

( Try www.mcmaster.com

Hmmm .... I'm not really sure what this is.)

McMaster-Carr is a large supplier of hardware related items. Like a very big hardware store with over 420,000 items (or so they say) and an internet presence. If they ain't got it, then it probably doesn't exist.

rswyan · Jan 23, 2005

( Try any of the big box stores like Home Depot or Lowe's, or even your local hardware store. )

Thanks Mad, I'll drop by Lowes or HD on the way to TSC this morning. First place I tried was the local hardware - no grade 8 bolts at all (how can they even call themselves a hardware store ? /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif) They referred me to a local building supply place and no soap there either (they said try a hardware store) And like I said TSC just didn't have the right size. If all else fails, there are ought to be some other places in town on Monday.

Got the aux hydraulic block and the JIC run tee for the return installed yesterday afternoon. Managed to get the aux block on without having to remove anything - just raised the seat up. Also figured out a decent routing for the return line. Need to grab a couple more hoses to finish hooking all up and it should be good to go.

rswyan · Jan 23, 2005

( McMaster-Carr is a large supplier of hardware related items. Like a very big hardware store with over 420,000 items (or so they say) and an internet presence. If they ain't got it, then it probably doesn't exist. )

Ooops - I actually didn't mean to quote the part about McMaster-Carr - I was referring to the bolt.

rswyan · Jan 23, 2005

Turns out it actually was a 9/16-18 bolt - which is interesting - I figured it would have been metric.

I was able to pick up two Grade 8 four inch long 9/16 bolts along with lock washers and nuts at Lowes - a little bit longer than what I need, and not fine thread like the original ones, but they should work just fine I would think.