Rear Counter Weight

[PreacherM]

The recommendations for half of loader capacity are good. I've got about 40% of max lift and it's enough for medium loads. Truly maxing the FEL capacity will make the rear light.

 

[esz]

Thanks for all the info. My bucket max lift is 2200 lb, volume 8 cu ft (I will seldom max it out and, in any case, not sure what material weighs 2200# for 8 cu ft), 3 pt capacity 3300 lb. I just ordered a ballast box that will weigh about 800 after I fill it with concrete. That is probably a good starting point and more than I have on my Kubota which just has a 200 lb blade on the back; so I don't lift very big loads. Yes, my Kubota rear tires got light at times, so it will be nice to have more weight.

Thanks again.

 

[notaz3]

 

[Torvy]

Thanks for all the info. My bucket max lift is 2200 lb, volume 8 cu ft (I will seldom max it out and, in any case, not sure what material weighs 2200# for 8 cu ft), 3 pt capacity 3300 lb. I just ordered a ballast box that will weigh about 800 after I fill it with concrete. That is probably a good starting point and more than I have on my Kubota which just has a 200 lb blade on the back; so I don't lift very big loads. Yes, my Kubota rear tires got light at times, so it will be nice to have more weight.

Thanks again.

I think for many people it is not how much you lift in your bucket, it would be with forks or a grapple.

 

[kantuckid]

Good question.

As you know, the "ideal" weight is a compromise because the material in the FEL varies in weight. Most of the compact utility tractors (CUTs) have a 1/2 yard bucket... about 13 cubic feet. A 1/2 yard of topsoil (depending on moisture) is about 800 lbs. A 1/2 yard of crushed stone is about twice that.

I always have something on the back of the tractor, either the backhoe or an attachment but I don't have a ballast box yet.

The other guys will correct me but I think somewhere around 800-900 lbs would be a good starting weight. This ballast box has a capacity of 800 lbs:

https://www.palletforks.com/tractors/3-point/ballast-boxes/ballast-box---fits-john-deere/191513.html?gclid=Cj0KCQiA9YugBhCZARIsAACXxeLJczNGJiqqTCj5Q0gpkMsRRX34hoRY49L_g3iAjJplGtSsF1RGCAsaApc2EALw_wcB

Also, keep in mind the principal below:

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  Tractor-Fulcrum.jpeg

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I have that one but never weighed it. I filled mine with crushed rock and store my logging chains on top the rock where it's settled in. I keep my drawbars and a spudbar in the holes mades into my box corners and at times a shovel/rake, etc.. I also have a ball hitch used for hay wagon pulling and at times i'll loop a chain over that ball for light pulls. Like many things steel and shipped, they've gone up by quantum leaps in price.

 

[dj1701]

I never thought much about the mathematics of the situation. I just throw a suitable size implement on the back and go lift s**t.

Dave

 

[ning]

Thanks for all the info. My bucket max lift is 2200 lb, volume 8 cu ft (I will seldom max it out and, in any case, not sure what material weighs 2200# for 8 cu ft), 3 pt capacity 3300 lb. I just ordered a ballast box that will weigh about 800 after I fill it with concrete. That is probably a good starting point and more than I have on my Kubota which just has a 200 lb blade on the back; so I don't lift very big loads. Yes, my Kubota rear tires got light at times, so it will be nice to have more weight.

Thanks again.

Just remember that the closer the ballast is to the rear axle, the less it counterweights (to unload the front axle).
Someday I'm going to build a ballast box setup that's adjustable, so the same weight can be moved farther back to lever better. The reason to make it adjustable in position is of course the farther back it is, the more it's a liability to hit things or just be in the way (like the backhoe).

 

[Branson Bob]

If your drawing is correct, please tell me why my butt gets lite and my front tires go flat when I try to lift a too heavy load with the loader. The fulcrum would be on the front axle with a loader.
hugs, Brandi

I'm not sure I can explain it much clearer. As in the Messick's video if the rear wheels are off the ground the front axle is obviously the fulcrum. Conversely, when the front wheels are off the ground (as they are when I'm carrying a boulder using my pallet forks on my 3 point hitch) then the rear axle is the fulcrum. (In this situation I use my split brakes to steer the tractor.)

If I have my backhoe on and my FEL bucket off, the front end is very light and prone to bouncing if I'm driving fast enough on bumpy ground. This indicates (by degrees) that the rear axle is the fulcrum.

What you're trying to accomplish with counterweight/ballast behind/aft of the the rear axle is to reduce the amount of weight on the front axle which is prone to failure when overloaded.

I might add there's a misconception that adding weight to the rear wheels (wheel weights or Rimguard) reduces the weight on the front axle. This is not true because that weight is not behind/aft of the rear axle. Such weight will counterweight the load in the FEL but it doesn't shift the fulcrum to the rear axle.

I hope this makes a bit more sense.

 

[4570Man]

I'm not sure I can explain it much clearer. As in the Messick's video if the rear wheels are off the ground the front axle is obviously the fulcrum. Conversely, when the front wheels are off the ground (as they are when I'm carrying a boulder using my pallet forks on my 3 point hitch) then the rear axle is the fulcrum. (In this situation I use my split brakes to steer the tractor.)

If I have my backhoe on and my FEL bucket off, the front end is very light and prone to bouncing if I'm driving fast enough on bumpy ground. This indicates (by degrees) that the rear axle is the fulcrum.

What you're trying to accomplish with counterweight/ballast behind/aft of the the rear axle is to reduce the amount of weight on the front axle which is prone to failure when overloaded.

I might add there's a misconception that adding weight to the rear wheels (wheel weights or Rimguard) reduces the weight on the front axle. This is not true because that weight is not behind/aft of the rear axle. Such weight will counterweight the load in the FEL but it doesn't shift the fulcrum to the rear axle.

I hope this makes a bit more sense.

Counter weight does save the front axel but not in the way most people think. It would take immense counter weight to actually lighten the front axel by a lot. 800 pounds on a 4000 pound tractor isn’t even close to reaching that point. But what the counter weight does do is increase the traction on the rear tires. The front axel ring gears aren’t that strong and weren’t designed to do all the work. If the back tires are more planted and doing most of the work the front axel will be better off.

 

[bindian]

I'm not sure I can explain it much clearer. As in the Messick's video if the rear wheels are off the ground the front axle is obviously the fulcrum. Conversely, when the front wheels are off the ground (as they are when I'm carrying a boulder using my pallet forks on my 3 point hitch) then the rear axle is the fulcrum. (In this situation I use my split brakes to steer the tractor.)

If I have my backhoe on and my FEL bucket off, the front end is very light and prone to bouncing if I'm driving fast enough on bumpy ground. This indicates (by degrees) that the rear axle is the fulcrum.

What you're trying to accomplish with counterweight/ballast behind/aft of the the rear axle is to reduce the amount of weight on the front axle which is prone to failure when overloaded.

I might add there's a misconception that adding weight to the rear wheels (wheel weights or Rimguard) reduces the weight on the front axle. This is not true because that weight is not behind/aft of the rear axle. Such weight will counterweight the load in the FEL but it doesn't shift the fulcrum to the rear axle.

I hope this makes a bit more sense.

The OP was asking about counterweight on the rear for loads in the loader bucket. Your drawing shows the fulcrum on the rear axle. I was nicely trying to tell you your fulcrum is on the wrong axle for this discussion.

I do know a thing about weight and balance. It was required in my work as an aircraft mechanic of 42 years.
Brandi