Real estate General topic

[paulsharvey]

The rent market is, complicated. On one hand, you have people attaching land lords for increased rent and greed, and there is some of that, But that's Why they own the property, it's not charity. On the other hand, there is an issue with "starter" homes being snagged up by people who watched a couple real estate seminars, and think if they can get 4 rentals, they can live like kings. You also have the large investors too. Then, you have people/governments; which complain about rental rates, But also increase the burden on the landlord.

I don't really know if all of these issues are new, or we just we never really heard as much about it till past 4-6 years.

I saw a sign yesterday, a mini house, $1100/month, and we are talking a studio. I've seen travel trailers (I don't mean nice, I mean older, probably not roadworthy), in someone's literal backyard, for $650/month. Add to that, some want far more than then first, last, and security. Note, this isn't beach or college town, or even nice, low crime area; it's not that bad, but not that good either.

Add on to the issues; I get noone "wants" to rent to a felon or someone who has been kicked out of another rental, However, those people do existing, and they have to live somewhere.

 

[2manyrocks]

Looks like the long term effect is landlords either raise rent sky high to offset for ones that don’t pay, they let their properties go to slums, or they stop renting?

If I were renting, I would want my landlord to screen out other tenants with criminal history.

 

[paulsharvey]

I dont know that I would care so much about criminal history, as work history, but I understand criminal history check too.

Be nice if there was kinda a two tier check; like a "light" background check that only goes back 5 years, and if nothing within last 5, good to go; available to general pop; while more detailed/long term history required something more to check?

Only reason I say that, every single one of us has a history, even if we never got caught/charged, that could have had us sitting in prison for many many years....

 

[paulsharvey]

Be hard pressed to find anyone who couldn't have been charged with 2nd degree felon for Flee and Elude without Violence... and most of us... a bit more

 

[2manyrocks]

Repeated domestic assaults or drugs would be red flags for tenants I wouldn’t want.

 

[paulsharvey]

Repeated domestic assaults or drugs would be red flags for tenants I wouldn’t want.

It wouldn't show up on any kind of civilian accessible search, but to be, gang affiliated stuff would be my big worry, and of all things, fraud kinda stuff, money crimes.

 

[paulsharvey]

We still haven't gotten every moved, or started working on the old house to get ready for sale; but I have had multiple people say I should rent it out. Going rates are approx 2x what the mortage is on it. We definitely aren't going that route, just because I have no desire to be a land lord, and we need the cash more than a slow stream of income; But

I had bounced the idea around of considering owner financing, with a Large down payment (enough to pay the place off), and something like a 10 years at 10% kinda loan. Not really my preferred method, but I am considering being open to something like that.

 

[ultrarunner]

30 due in 7 seller financing is one I have come across… generally for a property that has issues or a buyer that has issues.

I know a guy that built a small portfolio of seller financed property and it has worked for him… worst case he gets the property back in a condition to be determined.

Insurance would be most important.

My first rental was a small home I put every penny into including selling my car at age 22…

It had been on the market a long time and was simply bad but the broker needed to get it sold and made it happen… I’m on my second renter in 40 years and have not increased the 875 rent in 10 years…

I can deal with many things as a housing provider but not being able to get a bad tenant out is a game changer…

In the old days a simple notice that I’m not going to renew was my ace in the hole.

There are so many scams against providers with most taxpayer funded it boggles the mind. Cash for keys, Mandated Relocation Payments, Just Cause, Eviction Moratoriums, etc. and then things like prohibited breeds of dogs tenants can skirt saying a service animal or tenants by law allowed to open Day Care or other business use that expose owners to added avenues of liability…

The bottom line is providers need good tenants so be a good tenant and if the provider isn’t upright vote with your feet and move.

My single page rental agreement is now 32 pages counting all the mandated forms and disclosures required.

At least commercial business to business rentals have been able to avoid the trappings of being a residential provider… so far

 

[ultrarunner]

With consumer prices up almost across the board the declining value of Real Estate in the SF Bay Area has taken many by surprise.

Just 2-3 years back days on market was very low and over bids common.

Price reduction now expected and with businesses leaving values are down as much as 80% with 40-60 percent declines common for commercial and 10-20 percent decline for residential...

Location, Location, Location...

 

[paulsharvey]

With consumer prices up almost across the board the declining value of Real Estate in the SF Bay Area has taken many by surprise.

Just 2-3 years back days on market was very low and over bids common.

Price reduction now expected and with businesses leaving values are down as much as 80% with 40-60 percent declines common for commercial and 10-20 percent decline for residential...

Location, Location, Location...

Is it as bad as we all see? People leaving there windows down in cars, so they don't get smashed, and all that? I can't see people wanting to live in what we See, but I also don't think that can possibly be as wide spread as we are lead to believe

 

[ultrarunner]

Is it as bad as we all see? People leaving there windows down in cars, so they don't get smashed, and all that? I can't see people wanting to live in what we See, but I also don't think that can possibly be as wide spread as we are lead to believe

Yes and No.

Vehicle smash and grab is every bit as bad and has happened in places like our Doctors Parking Lot.

The feeder corridors to the airports are bad as tourists are easy marks doing something simple like topping up the gas tank if the rental car before returning.

Small business just doesn't have the margins to sustain repeated break-ins and large business relocations out of area picking up .

I won't let my visitors drive to San Francisco for sight seeing and instead drop them at one of the BART transit stations...

Yesterday I was at one of the managed properties trimming a hedge and the nice enough neighbor has 2 pitbulls... he said it's the only way he is comfortable leaving the house for work each day.

Alarms, doors, burglar bars are not much of a barrier without quick law enforcement response... so dogs are the current best solution ..

I felt sorry for the Pitt in the neighbors backyard because as I was using a gas trimmer on my side of the hedge the Pitt jumped high enough to get its head over the fence and bite the moving trimmer blade...

 

[WinterDeere]

Location, Location, Location...

... and Timing. I've watched so many friends and family foolishly buy in a sellers market, or try to sell in a buyers market. If you're planning your moves and housing purchases on a decades-long time scale, it doesn't exactly take a genius level of planning to take advantage of market conditions.

I bought my first home in 1998, scratching together what little I had to do it, because prices were down and forecast to go up. Then I watched my contemporaries panic to buy in 2002-03, when prices were peaked, paying nearly double what they would have paid in 1998. These were the same people who panicked and sold at a loss, when the market crashed in the late 2000's... exactly when I decided it'd be a good time to upscale.

Time your up-scale in a buyer's market, and your down-scale in a seller's market. For most who live long enough to enjoy their later years, and who didn't make terribly stupid decisions along the way or run into exceptionally bad luck, your home probably represents a fairly large fraction of your total nest egg.

 

[BackRoad]

I generally consider contrarian views when making a decision...

Just my personal view, but I don't consider CA issues are due to a single business decision or cyclical financial issue, they are systemic, building up over a long time.

In many areas, it will likely take years to overcome since those with the money - those who are able - are fleeing the state. There's lots of money, jobs and knowledge leaving.

It's NOT a temporary bump like FL in '08/09, which recovered quickly after the housing bust.

Those left behind in CA are holding onto hope that it's just a short-term dip, but I believe many areas may actually be more like Detroit - it will take a very long time - if ever - for the local economy to recover.

Mr. PaulSHarvey alluded to it. There are some bright spots, and always will be, but some areas in CA have had a bad reputation for a long time, even before the last 3-4 years.

One example; back in time, I was sent to LA before the jury completed the Rodney King trial to install emergency satellite communications for one of the airlines because of the riots...we actually had commercial planes shot at. And 25 years later, it's not changed.

And other places like Oakland, have a similar reputation, even if undeserved. I love the SF area weather, but now, even downtown SF is no longer interesting.

...It's heart breaking, though hard for me to believe CA is just going through a short-term bump.

 

[Jstpssng]

I generally consider contrarian views when making a decision...

Just my personal view, but I don't consider CA issues are due to a single business decision or cyclical financial issue, they are systemic, building up over a long time.

In many areas, it will likely take years to overcome since those with the money - those who are able - are fleeing the state. There's lots of money, jobs and knowledge leaving.

It's NOT a temporary bump like FL in '08/09, which recovered quickly after the housing bust.

Those left behind in CA are holding onto hope that it's just a short-term dip, but I believe many areas may actually be more like Detroit - it will take a very long time - if ever - for the local economy to recover.

Mr. PaulSHarvey alluded to it. There are some bright spots, and always will be, but some areas in CA have had a bad reputation for a long time, even before the last 3-4 years.

One example; back in time, I was sent to LA before the jury completed the Rodney King trial to install emergency satellite communications for one of the airlines because of the riots...we actually had commercial planes shot at. And 25 years later, it's not changed.

And other places like Oakland, have a similar reputation, even if undeserved. I love the SF area weather, but now, even downtown SF is no longer interesting.

...It's heart breaking, though hard for me to believe CA is just going through a short-term bump.

We all are forgetting that LA, San Francisco and Oakland are a very small part of the real estate in California. Granted they have an oversized percentage of the voters.

 

[ultrarunner]

I generally consider contrarian views when making a decision...

Just my personal view, but I don't consider CA issues are due to a single business decision or cyclical financial issue, they are systemic, building up over a long time.

In many areas, it will likely take years to overcome since those with the money - those who are able - are fleeing the state. There's lots of money, jobs and knowledge leaving.

It's NOT a temporary bump like FL in '08/09, which recovered quickly after the housing bust.

Those left behind in CA are holding onto hope that it's just a short-term dip, but I believe many areas may actually be more like Detroit - it will take a very long time - if ever - for the local economy to recover.

Mr. PaulSHarvey alluded to it. There are some bright spots, and always will be, but some areas in CA have had a bad reputation for a long time, even before the last 3-4 years.

One example; back in time, I was sent to LA before the jury completed the Rodney King trial to install emergency satellite communications for one of the airlines because of the riots...we actually had commercial planes shot at. And 25 years later, it's not changed.

And other places like Oakland, have a similar reputation, even if undeserved. I love the SF area weather, but now, even downtown SF is no longer interesting.

...It's heart breaking, though hard for me to believe CA is just going through a short-term bump.

Lots of Oakland’s rep is deserved and I would only add there are still good people here and neighbors that help one another.

At least I was able to experience 2019 when every vacant storefront was being fixed up and construction was booming and crime was on a decline… new grocery stores and Michelin rated eateries, etc.

Beginning to wonder if I would ever see the comeback as things in the 70’s were grim with the decline going back to the mid to late 60’s… so 50+ years waiting for the rebirth… but then the pandemic hit and set things back decades.

Oakland had been compared to Detroit in the past as the Detroit of the West with auto and industrial manufacturing.

 

[ericm979]

Is it as bad as we all see? People leaving there windows down in cars, so they don't get smashed, and all that?

No, it's not. I mean it still happens, but not that much.

I don't see people leaving car windows open so they won't get smashedb anywhere I go in the bay area. I have been some parking spots, usually remote trailheads, where there's broken glass from someone's window getting smashed. But I see that less often than I used to.

Bay area house prices are up slightly year over year: Bay Area Housing Market: Prices, Trends, Forecast 2024-2025
but down month over month.

the market is cooling some but it's not cratering.

I can't see people wanting to live in what we See, but I also don't think that can possibly be as wide spread as we are lead to believe

There's a lot of media and other voices who want people to think that California's some kind of failed state with everyone leaving, but it's not. There are people leaving but there's also a lot of people arriving. There are a lot of nice places to live in the state if you can afford them and don't mind that there's a lot of people there already. They're expensive because a lot of people want to live there. Even SF itself is pretty nice for a city. When I have to go there I don't worry about having my car broken into.

 

[paulsharvey]

So, Daytona, back before the 4 hurricanes in 1 year, maybe 2004?2005?, was pretty run down. Sure, A1A (right along the beach) had it's nicer hotels, and bars, and of coarse by the speedway and all, but a couple blocks over, it was methadone clinics, and homeless on the sidewalk. After some damage during Hurricane Charlie, a lot of repairs and general clean-up/improvement happened. Haven't really been down there in several years, but it just generally had less of a run-down feel.

 

[ultrarunner]

No, it's not. I mean it still happens, but not that much.

I don't see people leaving car windows open so they won't get smashedb anywhere I go in the bay area. I have been some parking spots, usually remote trailheads, where there's broken glass from someone's window getting smashed. But I see that less often than I used to.

Bay area house prices are up slightly year over year: Bay Area Housing Market: Prices, Trends, Forecast 2024-2025
but down month over month.

the market is cooling some but it's not cratering.



There's a lot of media and other voices who want people to think that California's some kind of failed state with everyone leaving, but it's not. There are people leaving but there's also a lot of people arriving. There are a lot of nice places to live in the state if you can afford them and don't mind that there's a lot of people there already. They're expensive because a lot of people want to live there. Even SF itself is pretty nice for a city. When I have to go there I don't worry about having my car broken into.

My last 5 visitors from German speaking countries had their rental car side window popped with 4 in SF or just across the Golden Gate.

New road glitter is a daily occurrence when I am out and about in Oakland.

My truck passenger window popped 3 times… Home Depot, Outdoor Supply and curbside working at a rental…

A lot of crime isn’t reported… and for property crime no officer will respond.

Utility workers have armed off duty police officers standing guard… even on my own street and news camera crews go out with armed security yet this week the crew was robbed including the armed security…

Obeying traffic signs is optional as in everyday both on surface streets and freeway although the governor has quadrupled the number of highway patrol here and expanded to cover city streets…

I know there are high incidence and low incidence regions of the State.

One of our nurses went to SF for her citizen swearing in ceremony and they stopped at Fisherman’s wharf to celebrate with lunch and her document case with all her original documents stolen from under the cover in the back of her minivan… welcome…

These things like 1500+ reported SF City bipping both affect those thinking of moving here and those thinking of leaving…

 

[LouNY]

My last 5 visitors from German speaking countries had their rental car side window popped with 4 in SF or just across the Golden Gate.

New road glitter is a daily occurrence when I am out and about in Oakland.

My truck passenger window popped 3 times… Home Depot, Outdoor Supply and curbside working at a rental…

A lot of crime isn’t reported… and for property crime no officer will respond.

Utility workers have armed off duty police officers standing guard… even on my own street and news camera crews go out with armed security yet this week the crew was robbed including the armed security…

Obeying traffic signs is optional as in everyday both on surface streets and freeway although the governor has quadrupled the number of highway patrol here and expanded to cover city streets…

I know there are high incidence and low incidence regions of the State.

One of our nurses went to SF for her citizen swearing in ceremony and they stopped at Fisherman’s wharf to celebrate with lunch and her document case with all her original documents stolen from under the cover in the back of her minivan… welcome…

These things like 1500+ reported SF City bipping both affect those thinking of moving here and those thinking of leaving…

How long are the law abiding going to allow crap like this to continue before taking violent action to stop it.

 

[lman]

My last 5 visitors from German speaking countries had their rental car side window popped with 4 in SF or just across the Golden Gate.

New road glitter is a daily occurrence when I am out and about in Oakland.

My truck passenger window popped 3 times… Home Depot, Outdoor Supply and curbside working at a rental…

A lot of crime isn’t reported… and for property crime no officer will respond.

Utility workers have armed off duty police officers standing guard… even on my own street and news camera crews go out with armed security yet this week the crew was robbed including the armed security…

Obeying traffic signs is optional as in everyday both on surface streets and freeway although the governor has quadrupled the number of highway patrol here and expanded to cover city streets…

I know there are high incidence and low incidence regions of the State.

One of our nurses went to SF for her citizen swearing in ceremony and they stopped at Fisherman’s wharf to celebrate with lunch and her document case with all her original documents stolen from under the cover in the back of her minivan… welcome…

These things like 1500+ reported SF City bipping both affect those thinking of moving here and those thinking of leaving…

I wouldn't live or work anywhere near a place like that. Life's too short!