Real estate General topic

[paulsharvey]

To be 100% honest, I agree with the appraisal. Although we like the place, and it checks all of me and wife's mandatory items, and many of the want items, it is not anything spectacular. If we could fine the right piece of available property, we could recreate everything as well, or better for the same price. It just there really isn't a lot of 10-20 acre peices around; there are some very nice 40-50 acre pieces, but they are well outside our budget.

There is a 19 acre cleared pasture close to us, for $190k. No infrastructure at all. It's been on market, at same price, for over 400 days now. Wife doesn't care for it, and the land loan, or construction loan would be difficult to do, with the large down payments, high rates, and short terms.

 

[paulsharvey]

If there aren't any cash buyer offers, looks like everyone else would run into the same appraisal issue so isn't the seller faced with working out a deal at a lower price with you?

If another buyer is using FHA loan, 100% yes, for a min of 90 days. Dont know about VA or 20% down conventional. I know VA has some pretty strict rules, and I know guys who have had to repaint the interior when selling to a VA buyer; so I would assume they would be harsh on the appraisal as well.

Heck, I had wondered when we sell our existing, how this will appraise out; but, being on the lower end of the spectrum, and only 2 acres, it should have a ton of comps. Actually was thinking the other day if a $40k down, and owner financing would be a good option when we sell; but hope to just do a normal sale after some repairs/repainting/clean up.

 

[WinterDeere]

Well, this is a tractor forum still, I think, so let's circle that back around. Happen to open FB Marketplace, and the very top item, a TYM 39hp cab. Hmm, is that the machine at sellers house. Yep, confirmed both b6 the equipment on the trailer, ready for sale, as well as the name.

It's frankly not a bad deal; $30k, TYM 394, 300 hrs, grapple, box blade, forks, bucket, disc, and bushhog, on a 30 ft equipment trailer. Not for me, but that's pretty reasonable with the extras. Oh, and it includes a hydralic log splitter too.View attachment 884304

In the several back-and-forth offers and counter offers that lead to us owning our present home, the zero turn mower and tractor ended up getting thrown into the deal. Bottom line, the seller didn't need them where he was going, and was planning to sell them anyway. I needed a mower and tractor, as I was moving up from a smaller property. It helped us close a gap not dissimilar to the one you're facing now.

Jus' sayin'....

 

[paulsharvey]

Got some additional info,if not real news. Agent called, and said appraiser still need to correct year of home on appraisal, even though he threw out their comps. She then said, if the appraisal is still short, would we be willing to pay the sellers cost of the survey, if they moved price down to meet appraisal.

Ok, how much is the survey? Oh, about $800. Keep discussing for a minute; and say, so how much was the survey? Oh, for 1 acre, it should be around $800. "This is 14 acres, not 1" Oh, I'm looking at the wrong line, I'll have to confirm the price. Don't get me wrong, that doesn't sound unreasonable for them to ask us to pay the survey if they are reducing significantly; however, I need a Hard number, not a vague "should be kinda" price.

 

[2manyrocks]

Sounds like the agent is fishing to see how much you'll give as opposed to the seller cutting their price to match the appraisal.

If the appraisal was done correctly by a reputable appraiser, I don't see how the seller can do much of anything but adjust the price to reality if there aren't any other buyers standing around ready to jump in and pay the shortfall.

Next time, just ask the realtor if the realtors would absorb some of the shortfall to move on with life and get this closed? Do some counter-fishing.

 

[ultrarunner]

Only fair everyone gets a haircut as they say…

 

[WinterDeere]

Only fair everyone gets a haircut as they say…

I mentioned previously that the seller threw the mower and tractor into the deal, to help close a gap that appeared, after we were under agreement. That resolved half the problem. The realtor threw in the last bit, just to get the deal done. She was operating under dual agency, and I think the original agreement of sale had her commission up at 3.5% or even 4.0%, in a market where most buyer or seller agents were taking 2.5% - 3.0%.

Just to get the damn thing done, as she was totally fed up with the seller at that point, she offered to cover the gap out of her own pocket. In the end, this effectively lowered her commission closer to the then-typical 2.5% - 3.0%, which was still not a terrible pay-out for a few days' work on a higher-value property.

 

[ultrarunner]

I mentioned previously that the seller threw the mower and tractor into the deal, to help close a gap that appeared, after we were under agreement. That resolved half the problem. The realtor threw in the last bit, just to get the deal done. She was operating under dual agency, and I think the original agreement of sale had her commission up at 3.5% or even 4.0%, in a market where most buyer or seller agents were taking 2.5% - 3.0%.

Just to get the damn thing done, as she was totally fed up with the seller at that point, she offered to cover the gap out of her own pocket. In the end, this effectively lowered her commission closer to the then-typical 2.5% - 3.0%, which was still not a terrible pay-out for a few days' work on a higher-value property.

Real Estate is one of the few areas where negotiation and often ongoing negotiations are the norm…

I like writing my own offers because it says exactly what I want and I know what it says…

 

[WinterDeere]

Real Estate is one of the few areas where negotiation and often ongoing negotiations are the norm…

It's funny, I always thought the same. Then I started my own tech company, and quickly learned there are no rules in business. Or put more accurately, everyone's made up rules and policies are just that... made up.

There are no rules in anything relating to business. You don't like the offer? Counter it! Everything is a negotiation, except "death and taxes".

 

[ultrarunner]

I grew up around the car business and dad would haggle… often when buying from his customers saying how often does someone come in to buy a car hands a check saying fill in the amount?

Had a wedding… three kids needed suits so dad calls his customer that was a tough car buyer saying I need 3 suits and he said no problem…

We found suits and then negotiations started… Dad got 20% off and as he was just about to agree said throw in socks and we got a deal.

At the mortuary mom was a little embarrassed when I questioned the total and I said Dad would not have it any other way… she nodded and said yes.

The person was a little surprised and said family in the car business since the 1920’s so let’s get a real number out the door… it worked and later he confided when I mentioned auto sales he knew what was coming.

At work I have a few tried and true for contracts… no price increase I can sign now…

Or negotiate a new contract and just before signing day instead of 1 year hold the price level for 3 years and I will sign…

Splitting the difference works when both sides want to close the deal…

So does offering non monetary such as home warranty, 3 years oil changes, etc…

Grandpa said if you don’t asked you don’t get…

 

[WinterDeere]

Yep... that's exactly what I'm learning. Trouble is, haggling is against my nature. I truly hate it.

Usually, just telling my customers I'm a terrible businessman, or a better engineer than entrepreneur, gets me some instant leeway.

Real-estate can be tougher, as the money that's changing hands is often someone's nest egg or retirement, and there's much more emotion tied to the deal.

 

[paulsharvey]

On the haggling, we wouldnt have toured this place if they hadn't said "taking all offers"; and although we moved a bit on the price, we were/are pretty much at our hard cap. So, yes, we might negotiate on the survey (depending on what that costs exactly), but I don't enjoy the haggling either.

When I worked with an engineering services company that did a lot of survey (not mortage stuff, roadway and utility stuff), we were right around $3000/day for a 3 man crew; and then around $300-500 per hour for the actual surveyor to review and sign. Being so recently built, even if the seller used a different surveyor than the original, they likely didn't have to take it back to section corners, and all that. I'm guessing it was a, find and verify prop corners most likely.

 

[2manyrocks]

If the seller is supposed to provide the survey, I think you need to let that cost fall on the seller.

What I would do is to remind the agent that if the seller has to re-list the property for sale because the property won't appraise and the seller refuses to budge on the price, odds are the next offers will be much lower and who knows how much longer before the property finally sells?

 

[paulsharvey]

I think we are coming down to a workable compromise, but the closing May need to be pushed back. I know the seller was meeting with their agent Saturday morning.

Apparently the seller hasn't even ordered the survey, but has written quotes. They wanted to make sure appraisal was final before they spent that money out of pocket (understable, as we have done the same thing with the 12 months of insurance, no point iy paying till the last second); BUT, the survey will probably not be able to be finished on time to meet closing date.

My understanding is we have all come to a verbal agreement basically; but there is a difference between seller in principle being willing to drop price to meet appraisal, and them actually signing the new sales agreement.

 

[paulsharvey]

If what we have all agreed to in principle happens, it will be long term better for us; but it will have us scrambling next week to line up moving parts, contractor outside our control, bank stuff, ect.

 

[djohn550]

It sounds like you're approaching the situation thoughtfully, balancing the financial aspects with your desire for the property. When you attend the viewing, make sure to be transparent with the seller about your budget constraints. Offering $350k is a fair approach, especially if that's the max you're willing to go. If the seller is motivated, they might be open to negotiation, especially in a rural area where properties may sit on the market longer.

Interestingly, I recently came across some listings for Apartments, Properties, and Villas for sale in Marbella. Although it's a different market, the principle of sticking to your budget while exploring your options is universal. In Marbella, there are many properties where you can compare prices and amenities to ensure you're getting the best value. If you're ever considering a property in a different location or even abroad, like in Marbella, it's essential to keep these negotiation tactics in mind. It might be worth checking out the property for sale in Marbella to see how they handle pricing and negotiations; it could offer some useful insights for your current situation.

 

[paulsharvey]

Well... seller has met with their agent again, and asked us to pony up another $3k in cash, plus the survey. Spoke with wife, and we said nope. Survey is fair, I think, but appraised value and we pay for survey, not appraised, plus $3k cash, plus survey. Wife's words "they gonna come back again tomorrow and want another $3k, I'm sick of this, we already agreed verbally to something".

It may seem like small potatoes, but you have to say enough at some point.

 

[tradosaurus]

Well... seller has met with their agent again, and asked us to pony up another $3k in cash, plus the survey. Spoke with wife, and we said nope. Survey is fair, I think, but appraised value and we pay for survey, not appraised, plus $3k cash, plus survey. Wife's words "they gonna come back again tomorrow and want another $3k, I'm sick of this, we already agreed verbally to something".

It may seem like small potatoes, but you have to say enough at some point.

At this point I would force them to lower the price for your aggravation

 

[2manyrocks]

If they aren't offering you any incentives in return, why offer another $3k? If they were going to throw in the grapple and the other tractor implements for $3,000, I might do that.

 

[paulsharvey]

This actually crossed my mind.
So, I know it seems like I pushed them and the survey kinda strong from the get-go; but there is a reason. If a deal falls through, the seller still has the survey (an asset) to show for their expense. If a buyer pays for the survey, and things fall though, that's just spent money, and a useless asset (a survey for property you don't own).