Real estate General topic

[ultrarunner]

No access across this property. The water, I would have to do digging on FLa rules about either pumping or animals watering directly from an open water source. Other than that, yes, free use.

Well; when I say no acess... the roadway on the western edge is an easement, each property gives up 33ft to create the road. IMO, I view that as not part of the property.

On my 2 acres there is a 25’ road right of way… I also own 1 acre on the other side with a similar 25’ right of way… so 50’ is the recorded number but the blacktop is 30’ wide and it works because I have no individual responsibility to maintain…. there are 5 neighbors past me and never an issue…

 

[paulsharvey]

Apparently, this road was part of the original development, and there was a Property Owners Association (POA, not an HOA) that collected dues to maintain the road. That went away 3 years ago. It is not a county road, so they don't maintain. Guess it just falls on property owners to either maintain, not maintain, or hire out. It's good condition, sand-clay road.

 

[paulsharvey]

Been scrabbling to get everything together. I didnt realize the number of things that I needed to provide within 3 days, 7 day, and 15 days... Also, annoyingly, some stuff is e-sign, some is print/sign/scan/upload, some is print/sign/physical mail.

Hopefully it's not an issue; but on the mortage application, it did ask if any additions, including porches/overhangs/patios were attached, which I answered, Yes. Now, that May trigger the need for an engineers certificate of wind load... Wife said (after I filled out form and submitted), why didn't you just say No. I figured the appraiser or inspecting would note it, and better to tell truth.

 

[paulsharvey]

Also, I really do like my credit union, and have no joke had the same account since I was like 12 y/o, but they are difficult to do a lot of e-transfer stuff; which is inconvenient nowadays

 

[Jstpssng]

Also, annoyingly, some stuff is e-sign, some is print/sign/scan/upload, some is print/sign/physical mail.

I just filled out an application for a small mortgage to do some work around the house. What I found annoying about the e-sign; you would sign one, and it would automatically jump down to the next spot to sign. I would have to scroll back up to read the form.

Am I the only one who reads a contract before signing?

The closing costs are about 2 1/2 times what I was cited; about 10% of the loan. This might make me reconsider, maybe take out a personal loan at a higher rate or just go a couple more years without a garage.

 

[paulsharvey]

My fine print stuff, they didn't include the closing cost discount for using their "partnering agent" which was a few grand. They had to re-prep the doc and send it the next day.

So, I did get hit with the pre-approval expiring like 2 days before the offer. So, had to get all that done again (I understand, but I feel the system is set up for people who aren't looking to buy, but ready to buy), and then bombarded with phone calls again. I can't really ignore them, cause my personal phone is also my work phone. The credit agencies are sure quick to sell that info to everyone.

 

[paulsharvey]

Got hit with something that I guess is common, but I didn't expect. The sellers want to stay in the home for 7 days past close. Not thrilled with that, but apparently they can't move into their new place until then. My agent said you can ask for basically 1 weeks rent, and a refundable fee to ensure no damage and everything is left clean. We aren't pushed to move on a specific date, so reluctantly we agreed.

 

[paulsharvey]

So, if they had known they could get moved, I wish they had asked for a 45 day close. It's been a rush trying to get all these moving parts lined up in time, stuff like bank holds, insurance, ect

 

[WinterDeere]

I'll admit it's been a dozen years since I had to deal with this, but why not just adjust closing date back 1 week? I remember changing our closing date by 2 weeks on the current house, for similar reasons.

 

[plowhog]

Got hit with something that I guess is common, but I didn't expect. The sellers want to stay in the home for 7 days past close.

That is a very nasty last minute high risk change. It happens often, but that doesn't reduce the risks involved.

For example: are you prepared to purchase a landlord's insurance policy to cover a catastrophic loss, such as if they burn the house down in the 7 day period while you own it and are responsible? I seriously doubt that your insurance you are purchasing as the property owner would/is going to cover such a loss by a tenant. Their insurance would not cover as they are no longer a property owner.

Like it or not, you are being pushed into being a landlord with all those added rights and responsibilities. I realize it is a stupid question but can they cook meth on the property during the 7 day period? If their diesel tank ruptures and spills everywhere, are they, or you, responsible for property cleanup? What if their dog bites someone? What if after 7 days they say another hitch has developed and now they need 90 days? And it goes on and on.

My temptation would be to say you are not going to close escrow until you can have possession and they have moved out. But I don't know all of the details of your transaction and laws of your state.

If it were me and I did allow them to hold over, I'd want some language where they are fully responsible for damages, etc. until they vacate-- and until you do a walkthrough after they have vacated and you approve the condition.

A mid-strategy is to let them stay, have a signed agreement that they do not get the sale proceeds until they: a) vacate, and b) you approve the condition after they are gone. And something like you can use their part of the sale proceeds to correct any damage that might occur.

I'm not intending to give legal advice as I am not qualified to do that. So, you might want to consult a real estate attorney about them staying past the close of escrow. I realize this is unwanted, but it would be terrible if you were on the hook to pay the mortgage on a property someone else destroyed, and which you could never even move into.

Good luck!

 

[paulsharvey]

"If it were me and I did allow them to hold over, I'd want some language where they are fully responsible for damages, etc. until they vacate-- and until you do a walkthrough after they have vacated and you approve the condition."

the title company is going to hold some funds until it's confirms no damage and clean

 

[ultrarunner]

I’ve done it several times with a Escrow holdback.

Maybe I’ve been lucky but so far ok.

Lenders have limits but the rent back was always to short to kick in.

PITI is what I received (Principal, Interest, Taxes, Insurance) and they paid all utilities.

Only exception was the last purchase where the only reason I was able to get my offer accepted was a generous rent back… up to 6 months at a substantial
rent kicking in month 2.

Often not possible to extend a closing without docs expiring is my experience.

 

[2manyrocks]

"If it were me and I did allow them to hold over, I'd want some language where they are fully responsible for damages, etc. until they vacate-- and until you do a walkthrough after they have vacated and you approve the condition."

the title company is going to hold some funds until it's confirms no damage and clean

Unless there is something already in the real estate sales contract, this requires a whole nuther round of documentation spelling out the terms of the continued occupancy. Otherwise, how much will the title company escrow and what are the conditions under which they will release funds? If there's a dispute, could be all the title company can do is deposit the funds with the clerk of the local court for you to fight over. And there's no assurance that the amount in escrow would be sufficient to cover any of the uninsured loss problems that plowhog mentioned.

 

[paulsharvey]

I’ve done it several times with a Escrow holdback.

Maybe I’ve been lucky but so far ok.

Lenders have limits but the rent back was always to short to kick in.

PITI is what I received (Principal, Interest, Taxes, Insurance) and they paid all utilities.

Only exception was the last purchase where the only reason I was able to get my offer accepted was a generous rent back… up to 6 months at a substantial
rent kicking in month 2.

Often not possible to extend a closing without docs expiring is my experience.

Unless there is something already in the real estate sales contract, this requires a whole nuther round of documentation spelling out the terms of the continued occupancy. Otherwise, how much will the title company escrow and what are the conditions under which they will release funds? If there's a dispute, could be all the title company can do is deposit the funds with the clerk of the local court for you to fight over. And there's no assurance that the amount in escrow would be sufficient to cover any of the uninsured loss problems that plowhog mentioned.

Oh, if they really did a smash and destroy, it wouldn't be enough. For paint touch ups, and maybe a broken window, it would be.

I have a friend that sold and did continued occupancy for like 4 months a while back. No idea what kinda documents they did.


What @ultrarunner is saying is 100% true; because everything is locked in, with dates, and all, earnest money applied to this escrow, ecr; to move it out 15-30 days would involve refunding money, transferring, new contract, ect; or that's my understanding

 

[2manyrocks]

If you don't have an experienced agent who is helping you with this, you might do what plowhog suggested and consult a real estate attorney.

 

[WinterDeere]

No opinion to contribute on the matter, in this particular case, other than to say I've become a big fan of real estate attorneys, in general. In fact, if you were in PA I could recommend one I've worked with in the past.

They are generally not very expensive, about half the hourly rate of my business law attorney. My experience is that they're both more useful and less expensive than a buyer's agent realtor, but in this case Paul is already on that road.

I'd recommend finding a real estate attorney in this case, only if your realtor indicates any doubt or unfamiliarity with this type of situation. For all we know, the realtor may have dealt with situations nearly identical to this dozens of times before, and may already be operating under the advice of an attorney. They may already have a boilerplate contract they use for these scenarios.

 

[2manyrocks]

Post Occupancy | What Is It and Should a Buyer Allow It?

If you are buying or selling a home you may have heard about a post occupancy agreement but what is it and should you allow it?

wellingtonhometeam.com

This comes up enough that there must be a form agreement for it somewhere. One issue that would concern me would be what if they don't move out after 7 days?

This is apparently written by a Florida attorney cautioning what can go wrong unless care is taken to avoid some pitfalls. https://kevinjjursinskilaw.procurro...losing-Occupancy-Agreements-FINAL-3.31.20.pdf

If there is no written agreement as to the post occupancy, there's some indication that it could take 18-24 months in court to get them out.

 

[paulsharvey]

We have the required inspections happening today; foundation certication, 4 point insurance, and some kinda wind inspection. I have mixed feelings; I think they are going to have issues with a porch, and that won't be a graceful or cheap fix, and seller is probably not going to want to do it. It also kinda annoys me that I'm forced to spend $600 on a guy that knows less than I do, just for that independent stamp.

So, I kinda know the back porch roof-overhang isn't constructed to code, and will need redone in the next 5 years; but I can do that Far cheaper than the seller can hire a contractor for. Also, being they discounted a lot from original asking, I imagine they aren't gonna want to do it.

Edit: I don't mean to sound cocky with that one statement, but I know what matters structurally, and what I can make work/fix/repair; but Not what flags something on an insurance inspection or what FHA or mortage companies care about; so on that, the home inspection companies Do know more than me

 

[paulsharvey]

On that back porch; the seller clearly did it them selves, and screwed a 2x8 ledger yo exterior of the house, which is not allowed. My current home, I knew this, and it is an entirely self supported structure, connected to the home only by flashing. The seller also didn't bother with drip edge on the outside, and it's shingles, so you get the water staining and eventually rot on the outside edge of the plywood.

 

[2manyrocks]

Could be the seller is too far into this process to not make concessions to get the property sold especially now that there are more and more saying real estate isn't selling.