Real estate General topic

[WinterDeere]

My mom is from Penn, and if I remember correctly, she said up there, property tax was based on footprint square footage of a home; which encouraged 2nd story and/or basements, as they didn't add to the footprint.

That's interesting, and I'd believe there's at least some truth to it, even if something to mixed up in translation. It's actually based on several things, I honestly never really dug into all of it. Our county has all the records on line, and you can see they way they count square footage and then categorize the summed square footage for each "type" of space. Basements are definitely counted, as are garages and accessory structures, but at a different assessed value per square foot than living space.

 

[paulsharvey]

More housing means more families needing need more schools, services, and other tax gobbling items. We need businesses. Unless your local government gave them a multi-year tax break to locate in their community, businesses pay a lot more in property taxes than they consume.

When I worked for a local county public works department; we asked why a specific, very large neighborhood wasn't it's own city. They explained basically for every $1.00 in tax revenue a city typically brings in from a residence, they spend like $1.26 on services. Commercial, it was around every $1.00 in tax, cost like $0.74 in services. So, yes, you are correct, residential property doesn't, on a whole, contribute to the local government revenue. Now, you add stuff like MSTUs and MSBUs, that might shift things a bit, (Munifcipal Serive Tax Units; basically a neighborhood that gets additional services, and the county collects extra taxes to cover those; like pave roads that benefit just that neighborhood, or add a fire station foe that neighborhood).

More spread out residence are worse too, if they expect the same level of service. You want rural trash pick-up, that costs more than in town trash pick up, or animal control, or whatever.

That is where the rub is for many people moving into semi-rural areas. They want the rural life style, but also want professional fire fighters, animal control, trash pick up, roads paved or atleast graded regularly. You see it on here too; people want rural property, then want Zoning to beat up their neighbor about tree debris, or un-maintained yards, ect.

 

[WinterDeere]

Is it common to find municipal trash pick up in rural areas, Paul? Ours here has always been private, handled by a small handful of private companies.

I'll never forget when I moved into our current neighborhood, the owner of the most popular local company used to drive the truck himself, for our route. Always cracked me up, as the guy must've been near 80, but happy as could be. I think he hired someone else to run the company and do all the paperwork, so he could just drive and haul garbage. A guy who knew exactly what he wanted out of life, and had the ware withal to make it happen.

 

[paulsharvey]

Is it common to find municipal trash pick up in rural areas, Paul? Ours here has always been private, handled by a small handful of private companies.

I'll never forget when I moved into our current neighborhood, the owner of the most popular local company used to drive the truck himself, for our route. Always cracked me up, as the guy must've been near 80, but happy as could be. I think he hired someone else to run the company and do all the paperwork, so he could just drive and haul garbage. A guy who knew exactly what he wanted out of life, and had the ware withal to make it happen.

In my part of North East/North Central FLa, the majority of counties do have rural trash pick up, 1/week. Needless to say, it's contracted out. Now, several do still just have waste collection sites, and you are responsible to bring the trash to the collection site. Many of the cities have 2/week trash pick up, and some still have their own city trash trucks, and city workers; some also go the crazy, 1 can max, separate recycling. ect; mine just announced the end of recycling pick-up.

My county has a mix of volunteers and several paid fire fighters. We don't have animal control, although the Sheriff's Office does have a couple Agricultural officers, who deal with Ag crimes, as well as the odd cow in a road, or loose horse, but mainly animal abuse/dog fighting.

Many local towns have done away with their own city police, and just pay the sheriff's office for the police work. (FLa, state troopers are just speed/dui police, sheriff's office are the actual cops; I know that's different in other states).

 

[paulsharvey]

BTW, I am happy with the level of service (or lack of) with my county. They don't do much for you, and they kinda leave you alone, as long as you pay your taxes. That's part of why we have kept our home search in the same county.

We do have very poorly rated schools, and although I have 2 kids in school still, that doesn't bother me. My feeling is, a good kid/good student will learn in a poor school, and it hasn't been an issue.

 

[Jstpssng]

My feeling is, a good kid/good student will learn in a poor school,

My feeling is that parent's involvement and interest in how their kid is doing has a lot to do with how well the student does.

 

[ultrarunner]

The average price of a 3br 2ba residence in Northern Nevada is now $600k. That's probably 1,350 sq ft +/-.

"High end" in any market is subjective. But around here, that's probably $1.5-$2M and up.

Needless to say, higher interest rates affect properties on the higher end a lot. But even so, my neighbor recently put her house on the market for $2.M+, and it sold in two days ....

I imagine the price to be your neighbor isn't cheap...

What would be a typical property tax bill on a million dollar sale in your part of Nevada?

 

[paulsharvey]

Around my part of the world, anything over $750k, you're going to see specialist agents/real estate brokers listing, so that's what I would call our High End.

Go 35-50 miles east, that's gonna be a fairly routine single family home.

 

[ultrarunner]

That's not a house... that's an apartment!

Just checked median for our closest major town, and it's $787k. The house I grew up in was nothing special, typical 1950's cape cod of about 3500 sq.ft. on 3/4 acre, but in a supposedly "more desirable" borough. My parents paid $125k for it in the early 1980's, and it's presently valued at $1.5M.

The constant new building where I grew up was going a little nuts, so I moved 30 minutes west, where median is only $550k. This allowed us to afford a larger home on a larger property, than staying "in town".

But I'd bet 3k sq.ft. stand-alone homes on 1/2 acre lots in ultrarunner's SF Bay area are closer to $1M median.

It's hard to say because of all the the variants in the 9 SF Bay Area Country.

I'm in Oakland CA and no matter where I have been in my travels it seems everyone has heard if Oakland.

Im following a 3200 square feet custom home in a large 1.5 acre city lot zoned for horses...

10 years ago it was 875k and 2 years ago hit 2 million but current estimates 1.6 to 1.8 million

 

[ultrarunner]

My city is building condos and apartments at the same time closing schools because student population continues to drop.

Having some of the lowest rated schools in the state can have this effect...

All kinds of new build it laws statewide reducing parking requirements for transit villages and making it basically administrative to add a granny flat...

Single family zoning is under attack as being wasteful and elitist...

As they say Real Estate is all about location, location, location.

In WA it went the other way for me... when I bought I had the home plus enough land for 3 more homes on 5 acre min parcels.

Changes to wetland setbacks have eliminated that possibility and the existing home is now non conforming which is the reason the assessor boosted value... he says not being able to duplicate makes existing more valuable...

 

[Jstpssng]

Im following a 3200 square feet custom home in a large 1.5 acre city lot zoned for horses

To me, the part in italics is an oxymoron. A lot that size zoned for horses is ludicrous.

 

[ultrarunner]

To me, the part in italics is an oxymoron. A lot that size zoned for horses is ludicrous.

Yep... it connects to tens of thousands of acres of bridle trails connecting several Eastbay counties... it's one of the few urban cities so connected around here.

Truth is there are very few remaining horse owners as neighbors... the master plan was laid out in the 1940's and lot size minimum kept a rural feel being that it's inside the city limits.

Mom and Dad had 20 acres and I have almost 3 connected to the folks via the bridle trails.

I wonder what the minimum average required for horse zoning would be in San Francisco, New York, etc?

 

[Jstpssng]

Yep... it connects to thousands of acres of bridle trails connecting several counties with its own network to get there... it's one of the few big city places so connected.

Truth is there are few horse owners as neighbors... the master plan was laid out in the 1940's.

I wonder what the minimum average required for horse zoning would be in San Francisco, New York, etc?

Now it makes more sense. Before, I envisioned a McCloud type character riding his horse through the streets.

 

[WinterDeere]

To me, the part in italics is an oxymoron. A lot that size zoned for horses is ludicrous.

I once owned a house with a horse and carriage barn, on 0.19 acres. In fact, that entire town, all build 1870's - 1890's, was 0.2 acre lots with a carriage barn behind each house. The outhouses were right next to the horse stalls, in each.

My father owned a similar house in another town, built 1865, with a dual carriage barn behind the house on something like 0.3 acres. Almost as if "two horses and two carriages in every garage" predated our 1950's "two cars in every garage" version of the American Dream.

 

[Jstpssng]

I once owned a house with a horse and carriage barn, on 0.19 acres. In fact, that entire town, all build 1870's - 1890's, was 0.2 acre lots with a carriage barn behind each house. The outhouses were right next to the horse stalls, in each.

My father owned a similar house in another town, built 1865, with a dual carriage barn behind the house on something like 0.3 acres. Almost as if "two horses and two carriages in every garage" predated our 1950's "two cars in every garage" version of the American Dream.

I once rented an apartment with attached barn. The stalls were still intact, and the wooden floor still bore the old horseshoe scars. It also had 2 outhouses... one on the first floor and another directly over it on the second story. There was a wooden chute for the waste to go from second to first floor.

 

[ultrarunner]

A friend bought a 1890 home in urban Oakland near salt water Lake Merritt.

The home still had piping for gas lights and each bedroom had a water basin with a 1" lead waste line.

The lot was narrow but in the back was the carriage house... one horse stall and next to the stall the buggy.

He asked if I noticed anything in front of the carriage house... It had large circle which I was told was originally a turn table to turn the buggy around.

About a mile away is a small warehouse that was a stable deep in the city for the garbage company wagons and teams... zero lot line building.

Heck... my neighbor born in 1900 grew up on a 25x100 city lot... the oldest of 5 kids and the only boy.

They kept a milk cow in the back yard behind the 850 square feet home

His job was to mow neighborhood lawns and bring home the grass to feed the milk cow and he sold the manure to the folks where he mowed the lawns...

 

[plowhog]

What would be a typical property tax bill on a million dollar sale in your part of Nevada?

It tracks pretty close to tax rates in CA, so a $1M residence would have a $10k annual property tax bill.

But ..... a big difference ... the property tax is not recomputed on sale like in CA. So there are some properties at double the value paying less tax, and the reverse. The County updates tax rates and bills on a schedule that only they apparently know-- I have not seen any rhyme or reason to it.

Our tax bill has changed a couple of times in the last 10 years, but once was because we scraped the house off the property and built a brand new residence in its place.

And, of course, CA prop tax increases are limited by Prop 13- that doesn't apply here.

 

[ultrarunner]

It tracks pretty close to tax rates in CA, so a $1M residence would have a $10k annual property tax bill.

But ..... a big difference ... the property tax is not recomputed on sale like in CA. So there are some properties at double the value paying less tax, and the reverse. The County updates tax rates and bills on a schedule that only they apparently know-- I have not seen any rhyme or reason to it.

Our tax bill has changed a couple of times in the last 10 years, but once was because we scraped the house off the property and built a brand new residence in its place.

And, of course, CA prop tax increases are limited by Prop 13- that doesn't apply here.

Statewide California property tax is index from base year value at transfer unless exempt transfer plus a max 2% annual inflation factor... sounds great so far.

The kicker is voter approved special assessments which either require 55% voter approval or 2/3 voter approval for most things since 1978.

So me living in a city where voters love to pass property tax measures results in a tax at least 50% higher than the same value base year in the county and the county like Castro Valley offers superior benefits...

A million dollar Oakland assessment is closer to 20k annual property tax where as in the county about 11-12k

 

[paulsharvey]

That viewing from last week, they reached out, the best they could do was 4% reduction, and no contributions to closing costs. We told them no thanks.

 

[ultrarunner]

I usually say thank you and close letting the seller know Im evaluating other properties.