Re-seal cylinders myself?

[Richard]

Here's two pictures. ONE of the cylinders that control the dump of my front loader bucket has just been discovered leaking.

On the first picture, you see what appears to be a shadow below the hinge and in fact, that's oil.

The last time I had one done (at JCB dealer) it was the cylinder for the dipperstick (it was the middle one, not sure if dipperstic cylinder would be correct name)

Regardless.... they repacked it and charged me about $800. I pretty much needed to change my undies when they gave me that bill.

So...how tough are they to do? I have EASY access to this one since it's right there. I'm thinking it has to be worth any cost to buy the spanner wrench and have at it, no?

If there's agreement that I can do this at home, my next question would be, should I do BOTH of them at once to get it done, presuming they are the same age or since the other one doesn't seem to be leaking, leave it be?

Any tricks to the trade on doing these? Just unscrew the end and "pull out" (as though I think that is actually going to be easy to do)

How about any tricks on putting the rod back in?

With the economy as it is...the VERY large surprise I got the last time I had this done, I'm willing to spend an afternoon full of sweat & oil/grease if it's doable by a home owner.

Though I'm not a mechanic per se, I'm very mechanically inclined and probably have any tool I'd need for this except for the large wrench.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Oh... just thought of this... any chance to do this ON the machine or should I remove entire cylinder first? (they're just so dang heavy)

 

[J_J]

The first thing to consider is to keep everything clean. I would use some Dawn detergent to clean all the oil/grease off the rod end, and have plenty of clean rags to lay things on. Although a hydraulic shop will have more knowledge in inspecting and measuring things, and might have on hand, the rebuild kits, but that is not to say that a mechanically inclined person can not do the job. I think several people have rebuilt rather large cylinders. You can do at last some of it while still mounted, such as taking of the end cap, and use a come along to pull the cylinder. Some people have used air pressure, but be very careful about this as it could come out as a missile.You could also use the hydraulics to force the cylinder rod out, but it might get messy, if you know what I mean. Perhaps two gal of fluid all over the place. You might see if the hydraulic guy might want some off time work to help you to remove and replace. I would read up on all the post about rebuilding cylinders. Good luck

 

[6sunset6]

The problem I have had with these size cylinders is that they are very hard to unscrew. I think the pros have some kind of very heavy bench and a hydraulic head. I had two and could not open either of them. Finally brought them in to the dealer.

 

[chh]

I've rebuilt a couple over the years, generally speaking it is not a hard job to put a kit in. As mentioned, breaking the theads loose might be a fight, but sometimes it is much easier than you expect. Keeping everything clean is an absolute must. The last cylinder I rebuilt was only 2 years old and had been leaking for over a year. It had a metal filing hung up in packings which ruined it, but fortunately did not score the inside of the cylinder.
As far as the second one "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

 

[dfkrug]

Any tricks to the trade on doing these? Just unscrew the end and "pull out" (as though I think that is actually going to be easy to do)

How about any tricks on putting the rod back in?

I have only done one large cyl, but numerous smaller ones. As stated by
others, the hardest part is the unscrewing...the gland and the piston nut.

What I would do is loosen the gland nut ON THE TRACTOR. Most of us do
not have a big enough vise/workbench to hold the cyl well. When loose,
I would try to pull the rod out, leaving the cylinder on the FEL. Capture the
oil with a hose and bucket. If you can not pull the rod out manually, you
can use a come-along, as suggested. I have used air successfully, but as
JJ states, it is dramatic, so BE SAFE.

When you get the rod out, the piston nut is usually staked and VERY tight.
I have successfully used a rod through the cross tube and a truck or tractor
parked on it to secure it. You will need big wrenches, for sure. To get the
rod back in, sometimes you need a "slot filler" to get the sealing rings over
any grooves near the end of the cylinder. Sometime the new seals are hard
to get on the piston. Boiling them in water first may help with that. Save
yourself $750.

 

[MarkV]

Personally I would shop around for a hydraulic shop if I didn't, and I don't, have the equipment. Your last cylinder rebuild at $800 sounds way out of line to me. Did you take the cylinder off or did you drop the machine off to them and let them do it all?

MarkV

 

[MikesTractor]

All of the above advice is excellent. You also need to remove the 2 hydraulic lines going to the cylinder to keep it from pulling a vacuum. You won't be able to pull it out with them hooked up. Once you get the rod out of the cylinder, Pin it back to the tractor where the top of the cylinder is pinned. Use that for a vise to hold the rod.

Once you get the rod out of the cylinder, look at the piston seals closely. If it has the chevron type (looks like a "v") seals, there are usually 2 stacks, one pointed in each direction. This is very important for the cylinder to work right.

If you get it apart and are not sure, ask questions and post pics. There are plenty of people here that are willing and very able to help.

Mike

 

[Opti-Mist]

All I can add is to protect the rod so it doesn't get scratched. Block it in place with clean wood blocks, and to hold it up so you can cleanly remove the piston from the rod. As was pointed out, make sure the chevron seals face in the right direction so that they will seal against the rod or the barrel.

 

[Richard]

Personally I would shop around for a hydraulic shop if I didn't, and I don't, have the equipment. Your last cylinder rebuild at $800 sounds way out of line to me. Did you take the cylinder off or did you drop the machine off to them and let them do it all?

My experience with that was so bad, I'm gunshy about dealing with anyone.

I wrestled the beast off my machine, lugged it in, had it fixed and reinstalled the beast, all single handedly. So all they had to do was give it service at their shop.

When I was talking to the guy about it, I think my genuine surprise and frustration came through (I didn't get ugly with them, after all, I did not ask for a quote but then...I figured it would be under $300)

Anyways... turns out he was the service manager that I was unknowningly have a little shoulder cry with... he said he'd see what he could do and if memory serves me, they ended up knocking $100 or maybe $150 off the price. I still felt it was wayyyyyyyyy too much but even moreso... I really felt they should have contacted me. That was my ignorance and that won't be repeated by me again!!

I'll also admit that is the last time I've been to this place for anything. I usually went in there once/twice a year for a part... now I'll do anything I can to avoid using them and have something sent to me if need be.

I kind of hate that attitude but I was SO taken aback with surprise at what happened, it's just how I felt.


My guess was since this is on the machine at a good height, someone might say it makes some sense to use the machine pins as sort of a vice. Are the wrenches used to take the nut off store bought? Are they adjustable? Is it a specific wrench (like a line wrench) for this or simply a large adjustable?

 

[MarkV]

Well I sympathize with you Richard. I have only had one cylinder rebuilt, and it was smaller than yours, but as I recall it was under $60 dollars. I would have also been taken back if someone gave me an unexpected $800 bill.

So for those of you with more experience. What kind of prices do you expect when having cylinders rebuilt? Is there a standard for different sizes? Guess I have never put much thought into it and don't recall seeing much here on TBN.

MarkV

 

[J_J]

I would think Wayne would jump in here and give us the low down on cylinder rebuild pricing. It seems quite high, unless they did something extra, like hone the cylinder, burnish up the rod a little, and strip and paint.

Always get a quote, even from friends, including a phone call above a certain price.

 

[Wayne County Hose]

Depending on the shop, $800 might not be a bad price. I know of shops that charge that much, but they re-machine the entire cylinder assembly. Does a homeowner need that kind of quality? No way.
Anyhow, sure a machine owner with some mechanical ability can do this. I would go invest in a good quality 3' pipe wrench, not some Harbor freight pos. Do not, absolutely do not boil seals. Most are rated for 212 degrees max. You can heat them, but do not boil them. Always heat them in some kind of fluid, oil or water.
Probably the first thing you want to do is extend the rods all the way out. Now, take your thumb and index finger and grab the rod. Keep your minds out of the gutter now because I'm being serious. Run your hand slowly up and down the rod feeling for anything not perfectly smooth. If you have a beat up rod, no sense in putting a seal in it. And, if they are sister cylinders, absolutely rebuild them both. It's kinda like having bald tires on your car and one goes flat. The other one still holds air but do you just get one? There's more theory behind it, but that's the simplest way to put it.
Post pics and if you run into a snag, just ask.
Andy

 

[MarkV]

Andy, glad you jumped into this discussion. I still wonder what would be a ball park price to replace the seals in the size cylinders you see on our small tractors or log spiters? Richard has an industrial size machine so I can understand it being more expensive. But $800 for one cylinder seemed high to me.

MarkV

 

[Richard]

Thanks for all the comments.

Since I'm at it...let me add this question...

My backhoe bleeds over to one side. Not the other side but ONLY to one side (the right side).

This tells me I might need my swing cylinders rebuilt but more than likely for a machine this old (1985?) I probably need to rebuild the box that the wiggle sticks are connected to.

I don't have a manual in front of me so I'm speculating on some of my comments here.

I think this machine has a cartridge type valve? My guess (and it's only a guess at this point) that the whole assembly unscrews and is then servicable.

Two years ago, I went to this dealer and said I wanted all the parts to rebuilt this box. (the box is maybe 15" x 15"???) The two wobble sticks and the two stabilizers are all contained in this assembly box.

So.... just for general conversation and not to get into specifics, is a situation like this servicable at home by someone mechanically inclined?

I personally think it must be... can't be too much rocket science to remove the box (if need be) or remove the valves themselves and take apart to replace some seals & gaskets?

Is my ignorance preparing to bite me on this one?