Random thoughts on ag labor shortage

   / Random thoughts on ag labor shortage #51  
Now my hat is off to all the family farmers! :) You guys do a lot of good for the nation. It's not funny that the family farm, vineard is going the corporate way. Lots of profit in corporate farming, must be otherwise they would not be buying up the small, medium and even large family farms. I was sad to learn that after many years in the wine and vineard business, one of the true founding family vineard and winery was sold to a commercial operation. Since the sale has not been made public yet, I won't name the winery but for those of us to follow great wines and understand the histroy of Napa it will be a shock.:(
 
   / Random thoughts on ag labor shortage #52  
dooleysm said:
I never thought so many people would bristle at being described as 'wealthy'. I've been called alot worse, and I imagine that many people would consider me wealthy.

I reiterate that I don't think farmers are wealthy. I stand by my position that everyone on this board, myself included, are less in need of charity of any kind than a whole class of people (whatever you want to call them) that includes folks that are illiterate, homeless, sick, or in other ways disadvantaged. That was the whole point I was trying (and apparently failing) to make in my initial post on this subject.
How does being illiterate in this country qualify as being "disdvantaged" when there are 12 years of free education available? And why does being sick make one "in need of charity"? I suggest that this is painting with a brush that is way too wide. I would bet there are lots of sick people who need nothing more than good health, and charity cannot provide that.
 
   / Random thoughts on ag labor shortage #53  
RichZ said:
But, if there weren't family farms, as I said earlier, this country would be dependent on food from corporate farms and foreign countries, and the standards to which those foods are produced are very poor. My wife and I prefer eating food that we have either grown, or food that we know the origin of. I think that is becoming more and more common now in the USA, as I think it should.


Be careful knocking the "corporate" farms RichZ. Many of us who where/are classed as that are family farmers who are with an integrator. In the swine business it is the only way to break into it anymore. It can be very rewarding, we always did as good or a better job with the animals than many independents that I know.:) It can also be an easy way to loose the farm.:( I've seen it happen to some of my friends and nieghbors.
They are not to be confused with the corporate farms that are full owned by megabusiness'.
 
   / Random thoughts on ag labor shortage #54  
chh, you are totally right, I should have clarified that, but happily, you already did. Sorry for the slight, but thanks for clearing it up.
 
   / Random thoughts on ag labor shortage #55  
No slight taken Rich, I just wanted to clarify things a bit.

Oh well, its snowing in OK and this "rich" guy has to go get things done.:rolleyes:
 
   / Random thoughts on ag labor shortage #56  
Tree planters feel pinch of cuts
By Nancy Cole, Arkansas Democrat-Gazette
Wednesday, March 5, 2008

LITTLE ROCK - Some tree-planting contractors in Arkansas are going out of business because of a shortage of H-2B guest-worker visas.

"It put me out of business," said Chuck Hoover, a Monticello-based forestry contractor who began hiring H-2B workers in 1999.

"I'm not the only one," he said. "I've got two other friends that live here pretty close to me and they didn't get their help either."

Those wanting their land planted with seedlings will be served, if a bit late this year, said Allan Murray, who manages the Arkansas Forestry Commission's Baucum Nursery just east of LittleRock. That's because some landowners were hesitant to commit to seedlings because of the uncertainty of the Farm Bill and itsreforestation incentives, and high grain prices make farming more attractive than trees, he said.

Hoover wanted to employ 40H-2B planters from Mexico but received none. The inability to plant seedlings jeopardizes the demand for Hoover's other work, which involves spraying, burning and ripping land to prepare it for planting.

"The only way that's going to pay off is if the land gets trees planted on it," Hoover said.

Finding U.S. workers to plant seedlings has become increasingly difficult during the past 45 years, said Bryan Davis, a forester with Little Rock-based Davis DuBose Forestry Real Estate Consultants.

"As the years went by, there were other, better jobs," and localpeople no longer want to do strenuous stoop labor, Davis said.

The problems with hiring foreign workers are rooted in federal legislation.

Section H-2B of the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 permits nonimmigrant foreigners to enter the United States each year to perform temporary services on a seasonal basis. Forestry, construction, hospitality, fisheries, landscaping and golf course maintenance are just a few of the sectors that use H-2B workers.

In subsequent years, the number of H-2B visas that could be issued was capped at 66,000 per fiscal year - one half starting Oct. 1, the other half starting April 1 - but demand grew.

In 2005, demand for H-2B visas exceeded the supply so Congress exempted returning workers - those who had worked in theUnited States in any of the previous three years - from the cap.

Because the returning-worker exemption expired last Sept. 30, many in U.S. forestry feared an H-2B worker shortage. An attempt was made to extend the exemption - the Save Our Small and Seasonal Businesses Act of 2007, S.B. 988 and H.B. 1843, but the legislation failed.

"Some people did not get crews, and some crews were smaller," said Mark Chupp, who manages ArborGen LLC's Fred C. Gragg SuperTree Nursery near Bluff City in Nevada County. As a result, tree planting "this year may go deep into March," Chupp said.

Tree seedlings usually are planted in Arkansas from December to late February or early March.

"It's a very tight schedule," said Pete Prutzman, a senior forester with Kingwood Forestry Services Inc. in Arkadelphia.

"We try to plant when the seedlings we're planting are dormant," he said.

Although Kingwood's clients had no trouble getting their seedlings planted, Prutzman said he heard widespread reports of contractors having problems.

"We were braced for it to be a lot worse," said Kevin Richardson, who manages Weyerhaeuser's Magnolia Regeneration Center in Columbia County. Some smaller seedling sales had to be canceled, because of a shortage of tree planters, but it was mostly "business as usual" for the large companies, he said.

Plum Creek Timber Co. Inc., Arkansas's largest private timberland owner, with about 905,000 acres, got all its trees planted, said Peter Remoy, a Crossett-based manager for the company. Crews were delayed in starting work in Arkansas, so it took longer than normal this year to plant about 40,000 acres, Remoy said.

Demand for H-2B workers continues to be strong, said Ian Thomas Hardin, an attorney with Immigration Law Associates ofCape Girardeau, Mo.

The 33,000 cap for the first half of fiscal year 2008 was met Oct. 1 and, "by the first week of January, the April ones were already gone," Hardin said.

In Arkansas, requests for more than 8,000 H-2B workers were filed in 2006 and nearly 7,000 in 2007, representing more than 10 percent of the national quota.

The Forest Landowners Association (FLA), which represents private, nonindustrial landowners, has petitioned the U.S. Department of Labor to permit tree planters to enter the country under H-2A visas. A companion of the H-2B program, H-2A, which is designed for agricultural laborers, has no annual visa cap. Read FLA's letter to the Department of Labor online.


"I don't think we got hurt this year ... but I'm really afraid that [H-2B shortages] might hurt us in years to come," said Scott Jones, executive vice president of the Atlanta-based Forest Landowners Association.

H-2A looks like a good fix, he said.
 
   / Random thoughts on ag labor shortage #57  
Jimmyp5 said:
The H2B working visa is a nonimmigrant visa which allows foreign nationals to enter into the U.S. temporarily and engage in nonagricultural employment which is seasonal, intermittent, a peak load need, or a one-time occurrence.


The H2B visa caps have nothing to do with AG labor...There is currently an annual cap of 66,000 visas for H-2B workers. There is currently no annual cap on visas for H-2A workers. (AG Workers) This said, local landscapers can apply for H2B visa for employees, I see the problem in granting them as meeting the rules for H2B and the little understood system of visa's by the general populace.

Sorry, I had assumed we were drawing workers from the same well, and the AG side had the same problem.

Maybe I will apply for some H2A workers to help with my "farm" work.

How the heck does that work, let me guess, the AG lobbiest had better restaraunts then the Landscaping lobbiest. :confused:

Although reflecting on this, it kind of makes the initial post (and maybe more accurately the report that caused it) kind of suspect.

I made the assumption that they did not have the workers for the same reason we encountered in the landscaping industry, and that was purported to be the H2B Caps. We were told there were plenty of workers wanting to come in.

If there was no cap on the H2A, I wonder why those farmers did not bring them in under that program.

That said, would I go work for minimum wage on my vacation time for someone else, no. I would work more in my own businesses and hope I was making minimum wage.
 
   / Random thoughts on ag labor shortage #58  
MossRoad said:
So the question is, if someone can barely make a living by farming AND holding down an off the farm job... Why do it? It sounds like farming is a losing business. It sounds self abusive at that point.

Well every situation is unique. But I can imagine

- land handed down
- unable to sell
- general attachment
- unable to do a career change
- financial (break even vs. start over)
- move where?
- current economic climate
- just love doing it

and other thoughts. Money plays a part in it, but the reality is you come into the world without it, and last I checked, kind of go out...without it....

Heck, even the banks are having issues right now..

-Mike Z.
 
   / Random thoughts on ag labor shortage #59  
taking a week of vacation is a big thing just to work out in fields in the blazing sun for minium wage...
 
   / Random thoughts on ag labor shortage #60  
I can't speak to why farmers may or may not use the h2a program but for me, whether or not there were people wanting to come work for my landscaping company the hoops that you are made to jump through to get the visas are slightly ridiculous, not to mention expensive. That may have an affect on why they may or may not be used. If there is a significant cost to apply for and get the H2A visas and the farmers are already working with razor thin profit margins, they aren't going to spring for a bunch of money to get labor. Especially when labor used to be readily available in the form of illegal/legal immigrants. I'm no expert but the whole complexity of the visas programs seems to me to be supporting a niche industry of companies whose sole purpose is to get visas for companies. Simplifiy the process, make less work for the government and the applicant, and you can take out the middleman thus saving both sides money. Too simple really.
 

Tractor & Equipment Auctions

UNUSED 3 STEP - STEP LADDER (A54757)
UNUSED 3 STEP -...
2018 JCB 507-42 7,000lbs Rough Terrain Telehandler (A53421)
2018 JCB 507-42...
2019 INTERNATIONAL LT625 TANDEM AXLE SLEEPER (A54313)
2019 INTERNATIONAL...
NEW HOLLAND C345 SKID STEER (A52705)
NEW HOLLAND C345...
2015 FORD F-150XL SINGLE CAB TRUCK (A51406)
2015 FORD F-150XL...
2019 CATERPILLAR 299D2 SKID STEER (A52705)
2019 CATERPILLAR...
 
Top