Random thoughts on ag labor shortage

[JazzDad]

The radio told me that there were tons of crops left in the fields last year due to the inability to get enough workers to harvest them. I won't go into the effects of immigration, temporary or permanent, on this situation. I am wondering how many people would be willing to take a week of vacation from their jobs and pick fruit or vegetables, for what may be minimum wage. And if there was a large number of people willing to do this, how would we match them up with the growers who need this labor?

 

[dooleysm]

If I'm taking a week of vacation to do physical labor, it's going to be at my house, not making minimum wage in somebody else's field. I can't imagine you'll find anyone that would take a week of vacation to basically volunteer to help a wealthy stranger.

The problem is not a labor shortage. The problem is the wage the farmers are willing to pay does not line up with the wage that the labor market will support.

 

[charlz]

My very first job as a kid was picking vegetables for 10 cents a pound. I was a pea picking machine but cukes was where the 'big money' was at

Having that experience and having big gardens I would have to say no... I wouldn't do it. Now.... if they wanted to pay me minimum wage to drive a tractor for a 'weeks vacation' I might have to think about it

 

[MossRoad]

Interesting subject.

Personally, I am at a point in my life that I take my paid vacations to spend time with my family having fun, not working.

However, when I was young, I frequently worked several jobs for low wages while putting myself through school. And yes, when I was on vacation from my full time job, I would work labor at other places. Kind of like getting paid twice. I'd have no problem working for minimum wage to make some extra cash if I didn't have a family to spend time with.

 

[chh]

If I'm taking a week of vacation to do physical labor, it's going to be at my house, not making minimum wage in somebody else's field. I can't imagine you'll find anyone that would take a week of vacation to basically volunteer to help a wealthy stranger.

The problem is not a labor shortage. The problem is the wage the farmers are willing to pay does not line up with the wage that the labor market will support.

Not to really argue with you but I think you would find that most farmers are wealthy in land and equipment and cash poor. What they can afford to pay is goverened by the price they expect to receive. You can't run a business paying more in wages than you will make from the crop.

 

[dooleysm]

I agree 100%. But the fact remains, they are wealthy compared to most. I think there are many other people that are far worse off and much more in need of a week of volunteer work. Let's face it, if you are in a position to take a week of paid vacation, you are most probably in a position to spend that week working less and earning more than you will get out of picking vegetables in a field.

If you aren't doing it for the money, then volunteer the week at a soup kitchen or building a house for Habitat for Humanity, or any other number of worthy volunteer jobs.

If you are doing it for the money, you are selling yourself short.

If you are doing it to have fun while working outside, you're going to do a project at your own place or at your buddy's house and have a six pack at your side.

While I have sympathy for the farmer, he's not in a position where his family is going to starve if he doesn't get his crops picked. Worst case, he'll have to sell off his assets, and then he'll be cash rich and land/equipment poor.

 

[chh]

In which case someone else has the land to farm, which gives him the same problem or it is sold to have houses/ranchettes on it, then your food comes from china or someplace else with little or no food inspection/regulation. The former farmer then has to get a real job to earn money since many are mortaged to hilt on the land and machinery and after taxes on the sale he wouldn't have anything left anyway. I am a full time rancher and if I sold everything I had I still couldn't buy a house in many areas and retire. That all said I wouldn't take a vacation(if I got a vacation) to do it unless I needed the extra cash.
The only real hope for the labor situation is more mechanical picking, so you can pay a few hands better,(not to mention pay for another expensive machine), and still get your crops in. The trends in regulations and animal rights groups on poultry, hog, dairy and other confined feeding operations are gradually driving them to Mexico as it is. Mexicans can then work at home and the taxes and Ag investment $$$ will be there.

 

[Western]

I wouldn't do it either. I am for the mechanical idea, maybe the shortage will produce more product development and enovation.

I think state, county and federal inmates should be a source for cheep labor when practical, they can earn a little for restitution and still be productive.

 

[goneandbrokeit]

I wouldn't do it either. I am for the mechanical idea, maybe the shortage will produce more product development and enovation.

I think state, county and federal inmates should be a source for cheep labor when practical, they can earn a little for restitution and still be productive.

I am wondering how many INCARCERATED people would be willing to take a week of vacation from their SENTENCES and pick fruit or vegetables, for what may be minimum wage. And if there was a large number of PRISONERS willing to do this, how would we match them up with the growers who need this labor?

 

[Robert_in_NY]

I agree 100%. But the fact remains, they are wealthy compared to most.

Wow, I didn't know I was wealthy. Thanks for letting me know. But if you don't mind, could you tell me where all my money is then

As for the labor shortage, you will not find very many people on the unemployment line willing to do the work the migrants do. And I would never expect people with jobs to take a vacation to help out a stranger.

I can't afford to pay my workers very much but I do pay them above minimum. Usually around $9-$10 an hour. The kids I hire would rather bag groceries or flip burgers then pick apples or toss bales of hay around. The people on unemployment would rather wait for a dream factory job then work as a lowly farmhand for a wealthy farmer.

However, I can call up the migrants and they will be here regardless of the weather, work hard and are honest and they don't complain. I pay them what they ask and do not dicker them down. I just wish I had enough work to hire them full time.

There are people that do like farm work but most farmers can not afford the benifits they want and need like health insurance so they tend to leave for jobs that they don't like but have benifits.

 

[MossRoad]

Wow, I didn't know I was wealthy.

No, but you know you are rich... daughter, family, friends, right?

 

[Robert_in_NY]

No, but you know you are rich... daughter, family, friends, right?

That is true

 

[jinman]

The radio told me that there were tons of crops left in the fields last year due to the inability to get enough workers to harvest them.

I'm always suspect of the conclusions of "the radio." What were the crops? Was the surplus due to excellent growing conditions? What would have been the impact on the market if all these crops had been harvested? What was the farmer's gross sales and was he a big corporation or a contract crop? Was the farmer able to take a loss or subsidy for his unharvested crop?

I guess my point is that you hear part of a story that is often sensationalized on the radio or TV. The truth is that the market controls the availability of labor the same as the amount of food commodity controls selling prices. I sure know about a surplus of unharvested food that I could hardly give away. My own little garden overproduced and I couldn't even get folks to come pick their own stuff for free.

So, I guess my answer has to be that I would not work for a farmer for minimum wage, but I'd work for family, friends, and strangers in need for free. That might not make sense, but I've never been accused of having good sense.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Hi Jim, when the government put the restrictions on migrant workers it cut the workforce easily in half. Last year a lot of the vineyards never did get completely trimmed as there were very few migrants. This year things are a little better as the big farms started trimming early (not the best practice but done so out of necessity). Spring is just around the corner and there are still vineyards that are not finished and I never did get my apples trimmed since I can't do it and the migrants are busy on vines right now.

The large vegetable farms are the ones that are suffering during harvest. It takes a lot of man hours to harvest one acre of product so the large farms being short staffed are really hurting to get crops in. I know one of the farms here didn't plant as much vegetables last year because of the labor shortage. Instead they rented the the rest of the ground out for corn which gives them some income off the ground but no where near what vegetables will bring in.

 

[AlanB]

The H2B caps are causing problems in the landscaping industry as well.

That said, for all the rhetoric out there, I think you will be hard pressed to find americans out there willing to do the work that many of the migrants do, in the conditions that they do it, for the pay they recieve.

I was listening to NPR yesterday about imported shrimp, and the problems that Louisianna is having, and how to combat them and be comptetitive. One sentence that rang true with me was where they said they would put the "buy American" stickers on the products, and that while most folks will tell you they will, when it comes down to brass tacks standing at the shelf in the local Wal-Mart, most people decide on price.

I find that true with myself all too often.

 

[dooleysm]

I said "wealthy compared to most". Think of all those migrants you have working for you. To them you might as well be Bill Gates. I'd venture a guess that most guys on this board don't consider themselves wealthy, but we all have internet access. While it's not expensive, it certainly is a luxury that many people in the world don't have, and I think that makes us wealthy, compared to them.

The point I was trying to make was, that farmers, on the whole, aren't so hard up for money that you're going to see working class folks (like I suspect most of us on this board are) give up a week of their vacation to help them out.

If you are truly on the verge of financial ruin, scraping by to feed your family, don't have any equity in your land, don't own any of your equipment, and don't have any savings, then I feel for you, but I have a feeling you are in the minority of farmers.

 

[jimg]

Robert
Im not sure I completely agree. They cut the willing work force but there are still plenty of people who could do the work. The same pols winking at the border problem are happy enough to pay those on the dole not to work. Wheres the logic in that?

In my own operation Ive made the choice to mechanize as much as possible. Ive also decided not to hire illegals. The kids around here are pretty lazy and the concept of actually working for pay is mostly foreign. Sweating/getting dirty is completely out of the question for most of them. Its just not the same attitude as when I was young. In that regard the illegals have it right. LOL...my son has no choice, hes getting the sweating/getting dirty course. In the end he'll be SO much better off.

In the end though cheap labor doesnt equate to cheap food prices.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Here are your words'

I can't imagine you'll find anyone that would take a week of vacation to basically volunteer to help a wealthy stranger

But the fact remains, they are wealthy compared to most.

I said "wealthy compared to most". Think of all those migrants you have working for you. To them you might as well be Bill Gates. I'd venture a guess that most guys on this board don't consider themselves wealthy, but we all have internet access. While it's not expensive, it certainly is a luxury that many people in the world don't have, and I think that makes us wealthy, compared to them.

The point I was trying to make was, that farmers, on the whole, aren't so hard up for money that you're going to see working class folks (like I suspect most of us on this board are) give up a week of their vacation to help them out.

If you are truly on the verge of financial ruin, scraping by to feed your family, don't have any equity in your land, don't own any of your equipment, and don't have any savings, then I feel for you, but I have a feeling you are in the minority of farmers.

You started out saying that "I can't imagine you'll find anyone that would take a week of vacation to basically volunteer to help a wealthy stranger" so I am thinking you are comparing farmers to regular 9-5ers. If so then you are saying farmers are wealthy when compared to a normal 9-5er from the US.

You then say "they are wealthy compared to most", again I am thinking you are comparing the farmer to a 9-5er.

Now you say you are comparing farmers to migrants which is why farmers are "wealthy"

What I really love is when you just wrote this "that farmers, on the whole, aren't so hard up for money that you're going to see working class folks (like I suspect most of us on this board are) give up a week of their vacation to help them out" While I agree that I would not expect or ask 9-5ers for charity or to give up their jobs to help I like how you call them "working class folks" when you compare them to farmers. So are farmers working class also or are they just wealthy millionaires who sit in their mansions and their only work is cracking the whip on all the poor migrants and "working class folks"?

From what you are writing I can tell you have no idea what you are talking about and have no idea of the economics of a farm but you are more then welcome to keep thinking all farmers are wealthy non-working class folks. And I will remember this thread as I am working from sun up to sun down while working a off farm job and my farm just to make enough money to provide a decent life for myself and my family like most farmers. And when my tractor breaks down and I get a $13k repair bill I will just laugh it off as pocket change

 

[dmccarty]

T...
I was listening to NPR yesterday about imported shrimp, and the problems that Louisianna is having, and how to combat them and be comptetitive. One sentence that rang true with me was where they said they would put the "buy American" stickers on the products, and that while most folks will tell you they will, when it comes down to brass tacks standing at the shelf in the local Wal-Mart, most people decide on price.

I find that true with myself all too often.

Walmart bashing is right up there with going after the Developer. Both provide a product that people buy and then very often the people buying, complain about who the bought from. People complain about Chinese products but continue to buy them since they are cheaper and then blame WallyWorld for selling Chinese products.

We no longer buy the cheap shrimp. We used to wait for a buy one get one free deal at the store but the last bag we bought was not right. We have 3-4 pounds of shrimp that is going to get tossed. Its VERY hard to find non foreign produced food products especially sea food.

A few years ago before the issues with Chinese food products really hit the fan I was concerned about buying their food products. Read and heard a few things that made me leary. AND I was and still am going to a couple of Asian grocery stores for certain foods though now I pretty much only go to the one store owned by a little old Japanese lady. I stopped buying frozen soybeans, Edamae, from both markets and started buying organic from a food Coop. The Coop was $3 a bag compared to $1 from China.

Her products come from both Japan and China but branded with Japanese companies. My HOPE is that the Japanese have some quality control on the products. I was in her store a few weeks ago and she had a letter on the freezer cases from one of the companies talking about their quality control.

I have been trying to eat more fruit so I have been getting snack bowls to take to work. Guess where they are made? Peaches and Mixed fruit is from China in the store brands. I think at this point China produces the most apples. So if you drinking fruit juices, they are usually mostly apple juice, guess where it came from. Looks like peaches are on the same path. And people where scared of the use of Alar which hurt the US Apple producers.

Eventually China will get its quality and safety to higher standards but in the meantime I'm spending the extra dollar to buy food that is likely to be safer.

Prepping the garden now. Should do much better then last year.

Later,
Dan

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Robert
Im not sure I completely agree. They cut the willing work force but there are still plenty of people who could do the work. The same pols winking at the border problem are happy enough to pay those on the dole not to work. Wheres the logic in that?

In my own operation Ive made the choice to mechanize as much as possible. Ive also decided not to hire illegals. The kids around here are pretty lazy and the concept of actually working for pay is mostly foreign. Sweating/getting dirty is completely out of the question for most of them. Its just not the same attitude as when I was young. In that regard the illegals have it right. LOL...my son has no choice, hes getting the sweating/getting dirty course. In the end he'll be SO much better off.

In the end though cheap labor doesnt equate to cheap food prices.

I am not referring to the illegal workers. Most of those guys ran away when the US cracked down on them. But they put restrictions on how many migrants can get work visas so there are not enough willing workers around to help these farms anymore.

Around here the migrants would go to the farms looking for work. Most unemployed legal citizens would rather go to the DSS looking for handouts then go to a farm looking for work. I would rather hire Americans to help but except for kids they are almost impossible to find on a farm unless they are running the farm operations.