Quick Connect trouble

[woodlandfarms]

Hey guys. Thanks for the info..... I wonder how you tear one of the valve systems apart.

But, yes, I think it is the culprit but it is going to be a few months before we get back up north... Oh well

 

[Rip]

So, Bob999......is the solution to back off the nut and retighten it or is the coil permenantly damaged or distorted? Mine seems to be working fine so far, but I am using the PTO more and more lately on my late '02 vintage machine.

Thanks, Rip

 

[J_J]

The solenoid in my PT422 is actually very quiet. It is just a light click, which is easy to miss. You can also check that the solenoid is energizeed by checking with a steel wrench or screwdriver that it is generating a magnetic field. When you disassemble it from the block, it will come apart in two pieces: the electomagnetic cylinder and the center plunger. Once pulled off the solenoid block, their is nothing that will "click" when it is operated.

I had to replace the solenoid, since my PT 422 arrived with the PTO dead. I can't believe that the solenoid itself is your problem. If the solenoid doesn't shift, then your engine wouldn't bog down like you are describing.

I think some invasive surgery is called for; maybe something has disintegrated and is blocking the ports in your solenoid block.

I can't mention this enough. $12.00 gage and a tee fitting will help solve 95 % of hydraulic problems.

Would any of you guys be interested if say Andy from Wayne County Hose making up a test kit for the PT. or any other tractor for that matter?

Why PT didn't put quick disconnects in all the right places for test purpose, especially since they don't want to repair anything, just irks the logical mind. Oh, lets leave it to the operator /owner to solve all his problems with the lousy manuals and schematics. We know they are never going to ship the PT back to the factory for repair. We got them hooked, let them order the parts from us and fix it themself, and also lets put a $50.00 minmum on parts, so it will increase sales. Dam# what a racket. I wonder if Terry enjoys all the phone calls about the PT's in general. I have to agree that he is knowledgeable, but he should be. Heck, after 22 years in the Navy, I knew a little bit about my job. It is hard to believe that no one has had this same trouble. As an electronics technician and later on as an analyst, you were supposed to know how things work, and when it didn't, you started to trouble shooting at the last known working part and isolate potential fault areas. I didn't like what happened later on, because we started to switch out black boxes until the trouble went away, and a tech in another area tore the black box down and isolated the fault and fixed it.

Sometimes it is difficult to be an Internet mechanic or technician, but we have to try, mainly because we want to solve problems.

 

[Bob999]

So, Bob999......is the solution to back off the nut and retighten it or is the coil permenantly damaged or distorted? Mine seems to be working fine so far, but I am using the PTO more and more lately on my late '02 vintage machine.

Thanks, Rip

My understanding is that the valve body is distorted--not the coil. The torque spec on the nut is 8-10 ft lbs. Based on PT replacing it as a warranty item on a 4 year old machine I don't think it is economically repairable once distorted.

 

[Rip]

Thanks, So basically leave well-enough-alone, but look at solenoid first if PTO acts up.

 

[Wayne County Hose]

I can double check and I don't know about the PT, but if memory serves me correctly, these valves are ORB threads. You could troubleshoot a valve by screwing in an ORB fitting with a cap (or an orb plug) and running the machine. The ORB fitting would allow fluid flow straight thru and just act as a plug. I'll doublecheck tomorrow, I just thought of this.

 

[woodlandfarms]

I would buy the kit you mention JJ...

As for my solenoid. Just a few more things. It appeared that mine was new when I acquired the tractor. The top nut removed easily when I was told to remove it. Second, my High Pressure filter was full of large scale debris (I have pictures to prove it) This filter is after the PTO and steering pump. Ther is a chance junk is in there, but I sprayed it out with air as best I could. Finally, I was told by Terry to take the coil off the valve mechanism. If rust builds up in there it will cause the PTO valve to not completely actuate. I have been washing the heck out of my PTO to remove all the oil in the bath tub.

Anyway... Yeah, I am all over a pressure kit, although I would like to explore just screwing one in in these aluminum blocs...

 

[Bob999]

Thanks, So basically leave well-enough-alone, but look at solenoid first if PTO acts up.

I think it might be beneficial to remove the nut and then properly retighten it. Based on my experience of it taking 4 years for the problem to manifest itself it would appear that the process of distortion can be a long one.

 

[Bob999]

I would buy the kit you mention JJ...

As for my solenoid. Just a few more things. It appeared that mine was new when I acquired the tractor. The top nut removed easily when I was told to remove it. Second, my High Pressure filter was full of large scale debris (I have pictures to prove it) This filter is after the PTO and steering pump. Ther is a chance junk is in there, but I sprayed it out with air as best I could. Finally, I was told by Terry to take the coil off the valve mechanism. If rust builds up in there it will cause the PTO valve to not completely actuate. I have been washing the heck out of my PTO to remove all the oil in the bath tub.

Anyway... Yeah, I am all over a pressure kit, although I would like to explore just screwing one in in these aluminum blocs...

Carl,

Because the steering and PTO pumps and circuits are separate (from the pump to the return tank) I would think that the high pressure filter is on only one of those circuits--either steering or PTO. Unless it has 3/4 inch hoses to and from it I would think that it is on the steering circuit.

 

[J_J]

I can double check and I don't know about the PT, but if memory serves me correctly, these valves are ORB threads. You could troubleshoot a valve by screwing in an ORB fitting with a cap (or an orb plug) and running the machine. The ORB fitting would allow fluid flow straight thru and just act as a plug. I'll doublecheck tomorrow, I just thought of this.

Andy,

I am thinking that you would have to put a plug in two holes to force fluid through the block to the PTO block, Here is why, I believe this is an open center valve, and the fluid goes to the input and out to the tank when the solenoid is not activated, so by plugging the solenoid opening, the fluid would still go out to the tank, unless that opening was plugged. The output to tank flow also takes care of any relief fluid.
I still say put a gage on the output of the PTO block, and activate the PTO switch, and if pressure builds up to 3200 psi, then the pump is good, and the solenoid block is good. Nothing should be plugged into the PTO hoses for this test. If you activate the PTO switch and get little or no pressure, then the pump is bad, or the solenoid plunger is hanging up, or the solenoid is not pulling or pushing the plunger, which closes off an orifice and open another. By the way, is this a spring loaded plunger? Spring might be broke or weak.
You could also bypass the PTO block completely by connecting a hose to the hose from the pump, then to a gage and shut off valve, and run the output back to tank. Start the engine, and slowly close the shut off valve, but not all the way. Never close the valve all the way, something will blow up. Watch the pressure on the gage. If the pump is good, the gage will show the pressure based upon how far you turn the valve.

Like Andy said, manifold blocks generally don't go bad, just the internal parts.

 

[J_J]

Carl,

Because the steering and PTO pumps and circuits are separate (from the pump to the return tank) I would think that the high pressure filter is on only one of those circuits--either steering or PTO. Unless it has 3/4 inch hoses to and from it I would think that it is on the steering circuit.

Bob,

Do you think the fluid going to the accumulator is filtered because it has to feed the brake system on the wheel motors, and should be kept especially clean. It seems like only those that have brakes on the wheel motors, have the filter. Is this correct?

Does anyone have a good hydraulic schematic that they believe is thorough/complete and correct. I would like to have one for each version of the PT.

 

[Bob999]

Bob,

Do you think the fluid going to the accumulator is filtered because it has to feed the brake system on the wheel motors, and should be kept especially clean. It seems like only those that have brakes on the wheel motors, have the filter. Is this correct?

Does anyone have a good hydraulic schematic that they believe is thorough/complete and correct. I would like to have one for each version of the PT.

I have an 1845 with the brake tender system. There is no high pressure filter on my machine. The only hydraulic filter on my machine is on the suction side of the variable displacement pump. I did add a filter on the return line of my mower--the only implement I have that uses the PTO. I ran it for just about the full mowing season last year and it still has the original filter on it so there apparently wasn't a lot a particulate matter in the hydro fluid.

My understanding of the design theory of the PT hydraulic system was that by starting with a clean system and filtering the make up fluid for the variable displacement pump the entire system could be kept "acceptably" clean. Based on trouble reports prior to Carl I had no reason to change that theory. Carl's problems may or may not be a basis for changing the theory--he has the additional filter as compared to my system and he may be having problems resulting from inadequate cleanliness of the system.

 

[woodlandfarms]

It is hard to judge my system fairly. It was abused prior to my purchase, and was not completely rebuilt (i.e. leaking hoses replaced). Nor has my environment been the best for repairs (basically on a gravel driveway under a carport). But the weird lumps of rubber in my high pressure filter (and none in my low pressure filter) are intriguing...

My system is very different than the schematic provided to me by Bob for the 1845. I asked Terry for a schematic, he said he would send it and never did. Either it does not exist or he forgot, and frankly I forgot until this moment. If he has one and I get it I will indeed share.

In looking at the 1845 compared to what my system has mine appears to have more bells and whistles, but I think is a bit cleaner in design.

Anyway.. Speaking with no authority so take my ramblings with stride.

Carl

 

[toy]

It is hard to judge my system fairly. It was abused prior to my purchase, and was not completely rebuilt (i.e. leaking hoses replaced). Nor has my environment been the best for repairs (basically on a gravel driveway under a carport). But the weird lumps of rubber in my high pressure filter (and none in my low pressure filter) are intriguing...

My system is very different than the schematic provided to me by Bob for the 1845. I asked Terry for a schematic, he said he would send it and never did. Either it does not exist or he forgot, and frankly I forgot until this moment. If he has one and I get it I will indeed share.

In looking at the 1845 compared to what my system has mine appears to have more bells and whistles, but I think is a bit cleaner in design.

Anyway.. Speaking with no authority so take my ramblings with stride.

Carl

As much trouble as you have been having with hoses busting and being deteriated and the filter that had the chunks of what looked like rubber in it, have you considered getting one of those hand pumps like people fill up kerrosene heaters with and rigging up a strainer on it and pumping out your tank and giving the tank a good cleaning, a lot of your trouble might be coming from a lot of trash in your system. If you didn't want to put new oil in it for what ever reason[$$$] I would strain it good to make sure I had a cleaner fluid in my machine. I hope you get it lined out soon. Your quick disconnects might have dirt in the fitting that is causing it to be hard to remove or reattach[not letting the sleeve slide back far enough to let it disconnect]. I have heard of some hitting the end of their disconnect to releive pressure maybe that has been done to your disconnect and damaged it some way that is causing some of your problems. You should be getting it lined out soon as much as you have done to it.