Quick Connect trouble

woodlandfarms · Feb 19, 2008

MossRoad said:
Woodlandfarms,
I guess I'm missing why you want to change them?

The male one you gave the part number for is $8.50 and the matching female is less than $20.00 at Bailey's on P68 of their PDF catalog.

Bailey's has been around a long time. I've purchased from them before, including the quick connects like you currently have, only a smaller size for my PT425.

Frankly I am sick and tired of waiting for parts to show up in the mail. I just want to drive down the road, grab it and go. Not order it every time I need it.

But it is much cheaper than the parkers (Parkers were $15 for the fittings).

woodlandfarms · Feb 19, 2008

Wayne County Hose said:
Carl, I sell Holmbury. Probably because that's who my supplier dealt with when I opened. I also have some Parker stuff. (shhhh, don't tell Weatherhead) For the weekend user like you, flat face probably isn't worth the cost of converting. They are almost drip-less. It is rumored that the EPA or whoever regulates this stuff is going to require drip proof q.d.'s in the near future. We can't have any oil dripping on the ground you know. I wonder where oil came from?

I just did a calculation on oil I have spilled from my PT. I have purchased 10 cases of oil since its purchase. 12 quarts per case... 120 quarrts..

not one drop was into a pan.. I would say 10 quarts spilled in my carport from hoses and stuff, the rest spread across my 40 acres.. Frustrating but I am now seeing the end of my oil leaks... It is odd to check the oil level and find it at the same height as it was 2 hours ago...

SpringHollow · Feb 20, 2008

I have been buying the cheap Italian Flat Face on Ebay. If you are willing to buy in large (10) quantities, they are actually semi affordable. It is really nice not to have a spot of oil every time i swap connections. I cringe every time i do this but i have swapped while the tractor was running. The other really nice thing is that they are easily cleaned before connecting.

Ken

J_J · Feb 20, 2008

Carl.

Did you ever put that leak detector in your hydraulic tank. It would sure help you find any leaks that you may have?

On the Quick Disconnects, no one else can think for you here, , because you know what is available in your area. I would get what is the most common in your area. Since you can not connect and disconnect under pressure with the standard PT couplers, the standard couplers is the cheapest way to go. If money is no problem, I would go flat face. Like Ken said, easy to clean, connect and disconnect under pressure. handle more pressure, allow more fluid. What is there not to like except the cost. It's not like you have to replace them everyday. You only have one attachment right now, that uses a hydraulic motor. After the initial outlay, it's just a matter of getting a new set of couplers for each attachment you purchase in the future.

Did you ever do the pass through test I mentioned on the couplers? That test will test a coupler to see if it will pass fluid as advertised.

Is the problem the PTO pump, valve system, or Quick Disconnect, or hydraulic motor?

I hope that you mechanically inclined, because you have a machine that needs it. After you get through with fixing things, you can sit in the seat and smile, and enjoy the PT without having to repair things every time you use it. Good Luck.

woodlandfarms · Feb 20, 2008

JJ
I did not put in a leak detector as either the leak is in the tunnel (will not find it without pulling hoses) or clearly obvious. At this point I think I have resolved most, if not all, of my oil leaks. I am replacing hoses as I have time / money. My three big leaks got fixed over the holiday.

As for connectors. I am going to have to way the cost / benefit on flat faced. but yes, I think I am going to make the connectors "local" in flavor so I don't have to make the $50 minimum with PT or wait a week for a connector. It is not as if I am going to be doing very much PTO work anyway.

As for the PTO. Here is what I know.

My PT has a built in PTO Bypass.

I have replaced the hoses from the pump, to the actuator and down to the PTO Connector.

I have NOT replaced any return or bypass lines (I will as Bob gave me a great tip on how to use a shop vac to prevent tank spillage).

I have checked voltage and ground to the Solenoid and it is good. I have dissasembled the Solenoid, and it activates, altough I am not sure how strong it really is. I have cleaned out the aluminum box (I think)

What happens is that when I flip on the PTO at idle the engine stalls (this makes me think that the PTO pump is strong and working - Pressure is not strong enough to make the bypass activate and the solenoid is not opening fully)

I then hook a hose from the PTO output and lay it back into the tank. Same results. I get some flow, but the engine is bogging so pressure is backed up somewhere.

Basically, all this testing is leading me back to the Solenoid. You have a great idea on just going with a new solenoid system, but in peicing it together I am no where near the price that just a replacement solenoid will be.

Carl

MossRoad · Feb 21, 2008

woodlandfarms said:
...As for connectors. I am going to have to way the cost / benefit on flat faced. but yes, I think I am going to make the connectors "local" in flavor so I don't have to make the $50 minimum with PT or wait a week for a connector. It is not as if I am going to be doing very much PTO work anyway....
Carl

You could order a male and female from Bailey's and keep them on the shelf. They'll be there when you need them and you can replace them as you use them. Sorry if I sound like a pest... but I am really just cheap and do not like to spend money. If you want to see how copper wire is made, try pulling a penny out of my fingers.

woodlandfarms · Feb 21, 2008

HA... Indeed. Maybe I will just order a box full of them...

and now that a penny costs .02 to make it makes sense to hold on to them.

Carl

J_J · Feb 21, 2008

Carl.

How many hoses are going into, and coming out of the PTO block, and can you take a picture of it?

woodlandfarms · Feb 21, 2008

I am in LA. There are two hoses, a 3/4" and a 1/2" coming from the two pumps into one side. On the top are two pressure relief valves. On the edge is the PTO Actuator. On the other side is a 3/4" PTO Feed, a 3/4" Feed back to the tank and 1/2" to the accumlator that feeds steering and lift....

The two relief valves dump back into the 3/4" pipe back to the tank when activated. I am have not followed the 1/2 pipe beyond the acumulator. I assume there is a feedback to the tank so that when nothing is activated it doesn't back up and activate the pressure release.

Here is the one blury picture I have...

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/power-trac/92909d1199395178-what-huh-4.jpg

The picture is upside down, stand on your head ;-)

SpringHollow · Feb 21, 2008

Carl,

Is this what you are talking about?

Ken

woodlandfarms · Feb 21, 2008

ksimolo said:
Carl,

Is this what you are talking about?

Ken

Just to let everyone know I have hired Ken to shoot all the pictures i need to post on the web.

Thanks Ken... Indeed it is what I am referring to.

ps. Do you ever use your tractor? it always looks way to frikin clean

SpringHollow · Feb 21, 2008

LOL - old picture!

Ken

EddieWalker · Feb 22, 2008

J_J said:
Did you ever put that leak detector in your hydraulic tank. It would sure help you find any leaks that you may have?

I've never heard of leak detector, but I sure could use something to find some of the leaks in my dozer's hydraulic system. I have dozens of hoses on it and go through about a gallon a day running it. At one time, it was over three gallons, so I'm getting better, but very slowly.

What is leak detector and how does it work?

Thank you,
Eddie

woodlandfarms · Feb 22, 2008

It is a chemical you dump in your oil tank, and then with a special light and glasses you can usually track the source. Napa sells the kit as well as other places...

Carl

J_J · Feb 22, 2008

Eddie,

That dye is a product that fluoresce/glows when a black light shines on it, and it glows a greenish yellow. The dye is only about $4.00, and that will treat about 20 gal. A black light can be found just about anywhere. This product can be used in hyd oil, motor oil, anything with a petroleum base, and may also work with synthetics.

J_J · Feb 22, 2008

Carl,

These are my thoughts on the operation of the PTO and steering valve block. The PTO section, is considered an open center valve, because with no voltage, the hyd fluid just flows back to tank. The hose that goes back to tank, also, take the fluid from any relieved condition, or over pressure. and sends it back to tank until the relief condition is met. When the PTO switch is activated, the orifice to tank is closed off, and the fluid flows through to the output line. The steering and lift pump feeds the block through a channel, and on to the steering and lift circuits. If an over pressure is realized, the relief valve routes the pressure back to the tank through the same hose as the PTO relief, until the relief condition is met.

On the solenoid section, did you take the solenoid assembly out of the block, and worked the plunger with a solid 12 v, and not through the PT wiring? When you activated the solenoid /plunger, did you hear a heavy click or thump. Those things don't go bad that often, so I suspect some trash is binding things up. The electrical part of the solenoid only cost around $30.00. I don't know what sizes they make them, but you can see some more examples in Baileys catalog on page 61.

Marks481 · Feb 23, 2008

J_J said:
did you hear a heavy click or thump.

The solenoid in my PT422 is actually very quiet. It is just a light click, which is easy to miss. You can also check that the solenoid is energizeed by checking with a steel wrench or screwdriver that it is generating a magnetic field. When you disassemble it from the block, it will come apart in two pieces: the electomagnetic cylinder and the center plunger. Once pulled off the solenoid block, their is nothing that will "click" when it is operated.

I had to replace the solenoid, since my PT 422 arrived with the PTO dead. I can't believe that the solenoid itself is your problem. If the solenoid doesn't shift, then your engine wouldn't bog down like you are describing.

I think some invasive surgery is called for; maybe something has disintegrated and is blocking the ports in your solenoid block.

Bob999 · Feb 23, 2008

I previously reported that I had to replace the PTO solenoid operated valve on my 1845. I carefully compared the action of the replacement to the failed unit. It was very difficult to detect any difference in the action between the two units when tested off the machine. The very sligt difference that was observable was that the failed unit seemed to be slightly "sluggish" in its action. However the range of movement was identical.

Again--a worker at PT was over torqueing the nut that holds the coil on the valve and apparently doing it for a number of years. Charlie Iliff reported he had a PTO problem and was shipped a replacement valve and he purchased his 1845 a year before I did.

When the nut is overtorqued it causes the valve to bind. Based on my experience it can take years. The failure on my machine was at the 4 year point. My failure was very similar to what Carl reported--I was mowing and the mower lost power and the engine lugged.

Marks481 · Feb 23, 2008

I had the same problem. My PTO was DOA in 2005 and Terry immediately said it was due to it being overtorqued when it was mounted onto the solenoid block.