Question on property lines / easements / encroachment

[JamesHW]

First thing I would do would go to the town or county and obtain copies of whatever records they have of your and your neighbors properties to see if there is a record of any easements. In the early 60's my Mom sold a small, odd shaped half acre plot to a neighbors kid (who sold it a couple years later) and the original survey include a small "T" that extends off their property onto ours. My theory (mom and the surveyor are both not with us anymore) is the T indicates the location of an easement for the leach field for that property and the neighbors have always kept that area mowed. The T has disappeared from newer records for some reason, probably just an oversight. If you decide on a new survey or getting a lawyer to advise, the documents should prove helpful in any event and possibly could clear up the mystery.

 

[TractorGuy]

You have to watch for misguided title attorneys. They can screw things up faster than you can say don't do it. Sorry for the long rant but I see this stuff and have to vent.

We purchased 5 acres adjoining our property a little over a year ago. The deal was held up at the title office and I finally had to request the reason. Turns out some neighbor had an issue brought forth by a title attorney claiming none of us had easement to use the main road. This happened in 97. They held up their mortgage based on this revelation. From what I heard it was determined the federal government owned the road. They contacted the feds and was told the feds didn't want it so a deal was made where a group of them formed a road owners association, had the feds give it to the county which accepted on the basis the road owners association would become the owners. I bought in 79 and was not contacted or made aware this was going on. As far as I'm concerned they screwed us all. If we were using a known public road that belonged to the federal government we no more needed an easement to use it than we do to get on the interstate. Many of us had already obtained mortgages and built houses that depended on this road for access. To make matters worse the same attorney wrote up and access easement that only gave access to properties that abutted that road. Sooooo when we wanted to buy the property next door it came up that we didn't have access easement granted to the main road because our property did not touch it. We had already refinanced our paid off property for the funds to buy it and got title insurance from a different firm on that deal. Then to make matters worse the title company telling us we didn't have access to the main road intended to fix the problem by having the president of the road owners association grant access to the person we were buying from and I guess that person would then pass it on to us. When I got wind of the whole thing I rewrote the agreement to grant access to the dozen other properties that were affected and got the road owner association president to sign that. The attorneys overseeing our deal accepted it and we completed the transaction. At the end of the day we all have access but none if it was needed and the problems were created on the whim of one misguided title attorney.

 

[TractorGuy]

One thing you might check into if the property is defined as an access road you might be able to have it separated and not taxed. If the county is already maintaining it I would try to give it to them so you are not responsible for any of it.

 

[KTurner]

Quick update - Went to the courthouse today and confirmed "the right to use for the purposes of ingress & egress a certain fifty (50) foot strip of land designated as "lane" on the aforementioned plat". This is what I expected to find. This piece of land is absolutely part of my tract of land which my house sits on. There's no question about that. This paved road is my property. There is absolutely an easement there that gives them ingress and egress rights. This is all very clear.

My issue is that they are treating my land between the paved road and their property line as if it were their land. sod has been laid, a mailbox installed, the irrigation system has pipes, sprinkler heads and backflow valve installed - all on my side of the property line. Their concrete driveway extends to the paved road, but I think that probaby falls under ingress and egress - dont really have an issue with that. And, the current "owner" is a charity in a different state, and will transfer ownership to my soon to be life-long neighbors in the very near future.

Just trying to figure out the best way to cover my butt and not get off on the wrong foot with the new (permanent) neighbors - though, I'm the victim here. It's the charity, or the people that the charity hired, that did wrong by not respecting the property lines and easement. Not too mention my budget doesn't currently have room for a bunch of lawyer fees.

Keith

 

[TractorGuy]

I think I would place a value on the part of the road and property in between and send a certified letter to the charity asking them to purchase it. It doesn't make sense to continue paying tax on that property you have no use for and they do.

Who paved the road? I would still look into giving that part to the county if you can get them to accept it.

 

[Andy in Gap]

I would not like having irrigation pipe in the ground on my property. Surface usage like the mailbox could be handled with an agreement but have them move their piping now! Whoever installed it on your property should be forced to move it. You will regret it if you don't speak up now.

 

[aczlan]

I would not like having irrigation pipe in the ground on my property. Surface usage like the mailbox could be handled with an agreement but have them move their piping now! Whoever installed it on your property should be forced to move it. You will regret it if you don't speak up now.

This^
I would word it politely, but firmly (ie: it seems that there is a misunderstanding, but the line is here and you have installed irrigation, etc on my property. Please remove it by the end of the month, or I will remove it).

Aaron Z

 

[Ford850]

This^
I would word it politely, but firmly (ie: it seems that there is a misunderstanding, but the line is here and you have installed irrigation, etc on my property. Please remove it by the end of the month, or I will remove it).

Aaron Z

X2
You need to talk to them right away. You're causing more harm by driving past it every day, watching them develop your land, and not saying anything to them. I doubt they understand what they are doing or where the property lines begin/end.

 

[Tompet]

X2
You need to talk to them right away. You're causing more harm by driving past it every day, watching them develop your land, and not saying anything to them. I doubt they understand what they are doing or where the property lines begin/end.

The longer you wait to address this will just make it more difficult. It sounds like the permanent owner is not moved in yet. Start off by notifying the charity you referenced or the people they hired. Provide the documents you looked up, with a written explanation and say you would like written acknowledgement or set up a meeting. You can be polite.

In the meantime I would start mowing that sod.

 

[KTurner]

Thanks for all the comments, it gives me something to think about before my appt with the lawyer on Monday morning.

Keith

 

[joefromga]

Easier and less confrontational to notify the non-resident charity through calls and letters. They probably have no clue and the vet certainly has no idea where the irrigation diggers have put pipes. This way the neighbor will never know there was an issue and the charity won't care because they don't live there.
When the guy moves in he will be happy to have a house and won't care how it got there.

 

[JamesHW]

I agree it should be addressed to establish clearly your ownership, but I am willing to guess there is zero chance the new owners (or subsequent owners) would have any success going before a judge and carving square footage off your road. It's an easement which should clearly establish your ownership and the access for the non-owners. IANAL and not your lawyer, but if it was me, I would just get acknowledgement of their mistake with the irrigation pipe.

 

[Deere Dude]

I didn't think charities were into sod and underground sprinkler systems. What happened to plant and water grass the good old fashioned way.

 

[dan ny escarpment]

We also have a flag shaped lot and shared 800' driveway for our place and the neighbor next door, at out retirement place. We own the bottom (at the town road) and top of the drive before it splits off to each home, and they own the run in the middle, the deed specifies a shared driveway easement for both properties (was owned by one family originally). Unlike most everyone else in the area, unfortunately these neighbors are neither friendly nor ethically employed, so costs for routine maintenance and snow removal are handled individually after a couple years of smarmy haggling and such. It gets complicated because some land is owned by each party, at some places, on both sides of the driveway. I mow everything I know we own, and some land we do not because it is on the side of the driveway our house is on, because they don't maintain it and probably do not know where the property lines are. Although it is an annoying sitation at times, and not ideal, it has worked out OK.

As other posters have noted, establishing clear boundary lines and assuring no installations or use beyond that specified in the easement on your land will be important to get straightend out asap, to avoid false expectations on ownership and property rights into the future.

 

[Wakey]

perhaps the irrigation was provided by a donor and perhaps the veteran is severely disabled?

 

[Zerk]

. It doesn't make sense to continue paying tax on that property you have no use for and they do.

t.

In certain parts of the country taxes are very low. You could be taking $50 or less for this piece.





Is the mailbox on your property or the counties right of way? I know on both my properties the county owes in from the road a bit.

 

[TheMan419]

perhaps the irrigation was provided by a donor and perhaps the veteran is severely disabled?

Or perhaps they wanted to do something nice for the vet?

 

[Sprinklerman]

I looked at a house for sale . It was a 75 by 200 lot and the house behind it was on a real small lot , no parking . The owner of the waterfront house had purchased the house I was looking at 10 years earlier . He put an easement for the back 100 ft of the house I was looking at . The easement was for above , on and under the land , for parking and septic drainfields . But the house for sale had to pay the taxes , and had no use or access at all . When i found this out , I cut my offer in half .

 

[Buty]

It sounds like you have a necessity easement which is said to run with the land. It never expires unless the properties merge.

 

[jlgurr]

What was the outcome?

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