Question For Connecting Double Lever Control Valve

[ampa]

I'm still kickin' this hydraulic connection around,and I'm really sorry if I'm becoming a pest on this same issue,but I've got no where else to find these answers, most connections I've seen are not really displayed so,unless I'm not looking in the proper past threads on this issue,I really need to get the info to fully complete my project correctly,so please bare with me, for once I get all my questions and problems aswered or ironed out,I should be good to go,here's my question/issue,I have mounted the double hydraulic control to the fender of my tractor,inclosed is a close up veiw of valve in question,this valve has three 1/4" threaded inputs/output? ports on each side of valve,now the one side I will be usin' a single action small size Myers ram/cylinder for raising/lowering my new snowblade,there will be two open 1/4" ports only one hydraulic rubber pressure line connects to this ram,the young guys who work in the hydraulic dept where I bought this valve tell me the two remaining ports must be looped back into the system with a short piece of rubber (P) hose/line to relieve the pressure back into the system, sounds logic to me so I'm okay with that answer, but what about when I connect the double acting ram/cylinder for angling this snowblade,which will use two of the ports leaving the one 1/4" threaded port open,what do I need to do with this?,please,in need of a diagram connecting the high pressure rubber hose lines to the two rams/cylinders ,then I can then print it out on my B/W laser printer to help me connect everthing up correctly, thanks in advance<<<<>>>>Ampa :confused2:

 

[DonnieP]

On the lower side of your picture, there are two inputs labeled P. You use the one of these that best fits your installation for the pressure input and plug the other. On the upper side you have to know if you're using a Power Beyond or an Open system. If open system, run one of the two to your tank (T) and plug the other. If you want power beyond you have to get a 'power beyond' adapter and put it in the side port and use that to feed the rest of your system and take the 'T' port on top to your drain. I labeled a picture and attached it.

 

[ampa]

Hi Donnie<<>>I don't know what to call my system since I started messin' with it, it may be either (opened) or (closed) for all I know about hydraulics,which is very little and just what I've picked up or learned in the last week or so from this TBN forum,all I can tell you, is that I'm keepin' the tractors hydraulics connected, to connect this new control valve,I was told I needed to cut the one end of the small original exsisting steel hydraulic lineand take out a small section of it,install a compression fitting on the one cut end and then install a custom fit of proper length (HP) high pressure hydraulic hose to the edge side( and not the top of the valve where you have marked with arrows,I don't know how you were able to do that with my pic of the valve,("confused"as always), anyhow the side is marked on the top of the casting with a "P",then I was told to install the second compression fitting plus another custom fit HP hose to the other edge side of the valve casting marked with a "T"(tank)which complete the fluid flow to the transmission housing or exsisting system,so these top 1/4" threads can be used to connect the system in line,so I gather then the two side hole are to be plugged off,I'm I followin' your info/diagram correctly Donnie?,the 3 plugs are just screwed in finger tight for now to remind me that this side of the valve will be operating the angle,the outside portion of the valve will be connected first,also this would be the single active small recomended to me "MEYERS" brand snowblade ram/cylinder that only needs one HP rubber hose connected and leavining one port open, Canadian Tire tried to sell me the manual lift for the new snowblade,for which I thought would be hard to manage,I'm on a small government OA fixed pention so I must always wait from cheuqe to cheuqe to buy what I need in extra additional parts,my early income tax refund return plus selling my two implements plus this months cheuqe paid for what I have already bought,I've also been told these extras that are needed are what cost the big bucks,so maybe with a little prayin' and a little luck I may have it all together and workin' for the first snowfall of the year,I do thank you Donnie so very much for patience and input,for now take care<<<>>Ampa

 

[DonnieP]

If you look in the top 'P' port you can see it is connected directly to the port on the side, they are two different size threads. That is why I say you can use either one, depending which fits you layout best. Same thing for the top 'T' port, you can see it is directly connected to the side port. Now you say "which complete the fluid flow to the transmission housing or exsisting system". My understanding, if the outlet from this new valve you're installing goes to the transmission housing, which would be the reservoir you're ok using the 'T' connection like you explained. But, if the line is going to the rest of the existing system you could be in trouble.

The 'T' connection on these valves are only good for 1100 psi. Now if the line going to the rest of your system, is going to another hydraulic valve and you activate that valve, the pressure in that line will build up to the supply pressure or whatever your safety valve is set for. This will most likely be more that 1100 psi. That is when you have to install an adapter to the side port. In that new adapter (power beyond adapter), you tie in the line that carries on to the rest of the system and you have to add a third line to the new valve, a drain line from the 'T' (tank) connection to your reservoir.

 

[J_J]

I am not so sure that that valve has PB. It probably has two pressure ports and two tank ports. Use either set for your mounting requirements, and plug the others. You can connect the A work port to the SA cyl, and either plug the B work port, or run a hose from the B work port to tank. This would be a good time to add a hyd gage.

 

[ampa]

I'm postin' a pic of my rear hydraulics only,this tractor never ever had a FL or BH,so this why I got to move the hydraulics up front for my new snowblade,I think I'll go with QD so if I need to remove the snowblade I'll be able to HP lines and all<<>>>J_J what's the purpose of installin' a gauge,is it really neccessary for my new setup?,anyhow I've got a lot of info from you guys,so I should be able to get this system up and runnin',can't seem to find my mearsurin' tape,I'll need this to measure the length of HP hose I'll be needin', the young guys in the hydraulic dept @ Princess Auto will make up all my HP hoses no charge,I just have to buy the fitting's and the rubber line @ a $149 a foot, not too bad the hydraulic supply wants close to $5.00 a foot,I must get the compression connectors here,they should have the side ports (P) and (T) for the larger size threads,in the pic it shows the big nut that has an "O" ring that while I have it off I might as well replace with a new one,not too sure if it has a gasket on the other side or not,maybe it is just machined to fit tight to the back side of the housing,it came off no problem usin' just an adjustable wrench,I'll be able to cut the line easy with the line removed,and I'll have a short piece for a sample size,so I'll be able to choose the correct compression fittin' with no guess work, still can't find all my mm sockets,the big nut that secures the small HP line looks like a biggie,anyhow I'll study all the info you guys have given me,I was down in the garage all night,changing things around,I reworked the "A" frame connection on the side mounts I made up from the belly mower brackets,that worked out excellent,I started working on the ram frame to lift the blade,I went with the OP design and I'll be usin' a chain for fast adjustment, it was quite a job tryin' to get it right, still I was able to get it almost finished,and it didn't cost me nothin' as I had all the metal in different part of the basement,used a lot of it up,but still have bit's and pieces left over,like I mentioned earlier on,I never throw any metal out,even a small piece comes in handy for something,looks like I'll have to fire up my new 125 LINCOLN 120 volt. wire feed,anyhow guys,Thanks a bunch for all the help,I sure needed it,time to hit the sack,and get busy at it again tomorrow<<<>>take care<<<>>>Ampa :thumbsup:

 

[J_J]

No, a hyd gage is not absolutely necessary, unless you want to adjust the PRV, and use it as a trouble shooting tool. The cost is rather low, about $12.

 

[rswyan]

Don't mean to rain on anyone's parade, but here's a little advice for the OP:

If you want your posts to be more readable (and possibly elicit more responses) consider using multiple sentences with a period at the end, and occasionally using the return key on your keyboard to break your posts into paragraphs ......

Can't speak for others, but when I see stuff like your post above my eyes just sorta glaze over .....

And now I'll put away my grammar police hat ....... :laughing:

 

[DonnieP]

You're right J.J., these valves have two pressure and two tank ports, one on the side and one on the top and they are different sizes. You can install an adapter in the side tank port to give you a PB connection.
bm20 power beyond adapter | Princess Auto

Specs on valve:bm20 2-spool directional control valve | Monoblock | Valves | Hydraulics | Princess Auto

 

[J_J]

Although it could have PB outlet, I could not find anything to verify that. I am thinking that it simply has side ports in and out, and top ports, in and out, and of course the work ports. I don't mind being wrong.

I downloaded the manual, and it only showed the handles.

Usually there is a plug in the PB port.

 

[ampa]

Don't mean to rain on anyone's parade, but here's a little advice for the OP:

If you want your posts to be more readable (and possibly elicit more responses) consider using multiple sentences with a period at the end, and occasionally using the return key on your keyboard to break your posts into paragraphs ......

Can't speak for others, but when I see stuff like your post above my eyes just sorta glaze over .....

And now I'll put away my grammar police hat ....... :laughing:

<<<>>>!!! duh !!!......Where abouts is the return key on a computers keyboard anyhow?.....I really don't mind bein' told about my poor grammar..... seein' I only made it to grade 6 in public school...and no futher.....wish now I had put my mind into learnin' all the important things in life....instead of payin' my full attention to all the cute little girls in my class:...."duh".........I'll go back to my old old normal technic....which is usin' a whole bunch of periods(PERIOD).....or (THESE)<<<<<>>>but thanks guy for bringin' it to my full attention......oh' by the way I wasn't the only guy that chased all the cute little girls....but with me seems at the time I couldn't walk and chew gum at the same time....."NOW".... can I please take off this stupid lookin' dunce hat <<<<<>>>>>>>Ampa<<<>>> have a good day ( "THE END")

 

[DonnieP]

I just bought one two weeks ago from Princess Auto, that's why I'm familiar with them.
Blb hydraulic - Products - Catalog - BM Series

If you look at the schematic at the bottom of the page, you can see where if you add the 'Hi Pressure Carry Over' you tie the T2 port for the PB and the T1 goes to your return.

Go to the configuration page and click on the outlet adapter and you can get several different adapters to go in the side T port.

 

[ampa]

"HI" Donnie<<>>>Since the only spot I could place my control valve was on the rear fender.....think I'll just plug the side inlet closest to the edge of the fender....and use the top(inlet) port... I noticed that your in eastern Canada.....I'm up here in southern Ontario....near Toronto.....and a born northerner....have been a part time musician off and on for many years and still play a good ol' American made electric Fender Jazz bass guitar for a Newfie musician buddy of mine who runs his own 4 pc. band....I play every second Sat. for his 3-7 pm. matinee gig and have been for the past 3 years here in Ontario...I've also personaly known this guy for the past 40 years or more ....my lady was born in St. Johns New Brunswick she was only 19 years old and just married when she came to Ontario back in 1949......I was born in 1941...( Oops...givin' my age and hers away..............she is a bit older.....but... much wiser than I......anyhow....Donnie I really appreciate your patience and all your help and sincere input to my hydraulic issues......take care<<<>>>Ampa :thumbsup:

 

[J_J]

I just bought one two weeks ago from Princess Auto, that's why I'm familiar with them.
Blb hydraulic - Products - Catalog - BM Series

If you look at the schematic at the bottom of the page, you can see where if you add the 'Hi Pressure Carry Over' you tie the T2 port for the PB and the T1 goes to your return.

Go to the configuration page and click on the outlet adapter and you can get several different adapters to go in the side T port.

You are correct. The first link never mentioned anything about the PB. Thanks

 

[ampa]

The top diagram shows a 3 lever/handle or triple control type valve....but still the same animal so to speak.... I'm completely okay to go......and finish up this project of mine.....once again thanks to you Donnie and you as well J_J for all your sincere patience and knowlage.....you guys are just super....super...I couldn't have done this hydraulic project without you two helpin' me along... I know all you guys like pictures so here's 16 of them(some of them are duplicates...dark and blurry....please note* no fault of my newest FUJI 10 meg pixel camera.....I'm just no good at photographry besides this a larger type camera built around the style of an SLR....a normal pocket camera would have been a better choice....the 4 pics of the dash show the mini gauges I installed about two years ago to replace the idiot lights for which out of 3.... only the amps light worked so I decieded to leave it in the system...I still need to connect the amp meter to the alternator.....as it's connected to the battery side (volts) and only shows the - negitive draw from my starter/acc lights e.t.c....it's way too work removin' the dash.... so for now I'll leave well enough alone.... take care<<<>>>Ampa

 

[DonnieP]

Lookin' good! At least you found a place to mount your valve. I'm in the proccess of installing a set of rear remotes. I got the same valve as you a couple of weeks ago and ordered the top link from Princess Auto, it came in today. I made a bracket to mount the valve on the ROPS but it was in the way, handles kept hitting me in the shoulder. I'll have to try another bracket, maybe tomorrow.

 

[ampa]

Hi Donnie.....I'm thinkin' maybe I should use the side out port (T) and buy the PB adapter because my tractor uses it's hydraulics for the rear 3 pt, and it does have an internal valve... just because I removed the lever does not change how it works....but what about the in port on the side closest to the edge of the fender for this and for neatness(hoses) best bet to use the top input port (1/4" thread)....so now.... do I have to plug each and every port that I'll not be usin' :confused2: ?...I'd like to get this all correct before I have hydraulic fluid shootin' out all over me and the tractor....like I mentioned before.....I know nothing about these valves or how they work....only what you've explained to me....thanks once again<<<>>>Ampa

 

[DonnieP]

You'll need to plug or use every port. The way I understand it, you will be using one valve for a single acting cyclinder. So you plan to use only one port of that valve to raise the blade. When you return that valve to neutral, the blade will stay raised, correct? Now to lower the blade, you'll have to move the valve the other direction and let gravity lower the blade. Now when you move the valve past centre to lower the blade, you'll be putting supply pressure on the plugged port and most likely lifting the safety valve. I don't know if lifting the safety every time you lower the blade is ok or not, I wouldn't think so. You have to do something with that port, you can't leave it open, maybe it could be plumbed to the drain.

I'm like you, just learned this stuff. It just happens that I'm just a couple of weeks ahead of you, so it's fresh in my head. Maybe someone who is light years ahead of us can answer that. Ampa, there is one heck of a pile of knowledge on the site isn't there?

 

[ampa]

I'm slowly gettin' the picture Donnie....ok now......you say when I use the single acting ram...lever center(nuetral position will keep the pressure on the ram......what happens when I do get around to to installing the double acting ram for my angle operation


....It requires me to use both ports....maybe and just maybe the top ports are to be plumbed back into the system by way of a "TEE" fitting.....I'm just thinking out loud here....I do wish someone would come on here and set us straight here....I do know that I won't be satisfied till I find out the proper connections to make the system work proper......and safely.... also since I'll be changing all the hydraulic fluid in my rear axle.... I picked up two 10 litre jugs of new stuff about 2 months ago on sale @ PRINCESS AUTO.


....When I first bought this tractor... the boot on the shifter was shot and letting some water into the trans/ rear axle....just how much I don't know this.....I do know water will go to the bottom....and just lay there till it get churned up by the gers in the axle then it starts to foam a yellow color....which mine does when I pull the stick to check the level which is always a little over the full mark...anyhow I had planned at some time to tap into my hydraulics...if I could have got a good deal on a FL....I would have went that route seein' I could attach a plough to the FL.(KTBAOT)...but reading about the damage that these FL do to the front 4 wheel drives.....I'm a bit leary of puttin' that burden on a greymarket tractor that parts are hard to come by


....I even thought that the chains I installed one winter were not doin' the front axle of my 4x4 ISEKI any good so I removed them....and have since cut them up....I felt I really didn't need chains anyhow... as with the new knobby ATV type tires I bought from PRINCESS AUTO about two years ago on sale...last winter even with the old but good used truck tires I had the tire shop install on the rear to replace the old TURF rotted/filled tires that came with this tractor.... it did a fine job of ploughin' snow usin' my rear graderblade....that I recently sold along with a finishmower



.....Now I may need to place some type of balast on the rear of the tractorno more than what the graderblade weighed which was approx 150 lbs including the frame......but I'll cross that bridge later....i know one thing I won't be gettin' a stiff neck lookin' back end of the tractor....I clipped many trees e.t.c......nearly clipped someones car...that would have been a disaster on my part.....so when and if.....and my eye sight remains the same.....I can see where I'm goin' with no blind spots.....I may put two rods of some sort on the blade to remind me it's there....anyhow Donnie....we are both lookin' for the correct answers.....and I'm quite sure we'll get them....once again thanks for your input....and also this TBN forum on hydraulics<<<<>>>>>Ampa :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[J_J]

On using the B port for the SA cyl, some say to plug the B port, and let the relief drop the cyl. 5 to 10 times an hour is not going to hurt anything. The other way is to plumb the B port to tank or tee into another hose going to tank. And yes, you have to plug the ports not in use. You can also remove the handle on the unused spool, so you don't accidentally push it. Even if you do, the relief will squeal and let you know something is not right. If there will be other valves downstream, install the PB sleeve, and the PB output goes to the 3pt.. The return/tank port for that valve goes to tank.